Supermatic
RBA's top of the line machine. An adjustable machine that can make king, 100 and short (regular/70mm) size cigarettes.
After having used the Excel for quite some while I decided to try the Supermatic. The change was good and bad. The Supermatic would make good smokes but it was messy and noisy, the action was rough, and the machine was hard to hold on to.
Without the bowl like shape of the Excel, and with the relative closeness of the stuffing slot to the edges of the machine, tobacco gets all over the place. By adding a Hopper Tray I was able to significantly reduce the mess. The hopper tray also made the machine a lot easier to hold on to. Heat-shrink and rubber quieted it down.
The Supermatic's action is not as consistent as the Excel, there can be a definite stalling hard spot when the action switches from compressing to pushing out the tobacco. While linkage binding can be a factor, the most probable cause is gunk buildup on the bottom of the cutter.
Gunk buildup on the bottom of the cutter is the number one issue with this machine. If you use moist tobacco you'll have to clean the machine fairly often. My solution was the adjustable cutter. RBA has since come out with a new and improved machine that has a plastic cutter.
The action on the machine can be rough. This varies from subtle and occasional, to a very noticeable, metal-on-metal grating feel during the second stage (spoon extending). There are two possible causes, a poorly crimped spoon (I clamped mine in a copper pipe flaring tool) and inadequate cutter face clearance.
The Supermatic's superior (to the Excel's) tube griper more than compensates for the inconvenience of having to clean the cutter occasionally. While the factory setting of the grippers release is typically fine (not so with the Supermatic II), this is an important setting and should be checked.
Once 'tuned', the Supermatics are easier, faster and more consistent than the Excel.
edited Jul '07
Comments [ new ]
- Supermatic Bushing(P-37) Failures
- Posted by DonD on Thursday, 16-Aug-2007
Hi Guys,
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I am new to cranking for smokes and I am having trouble with my B series.
In the month since I got it, I am on my third P-37 Bushing. The Bushing is shearing off in the middle, where the retention flats meet the threads for the Bushing Nut (P-38). I am guessing that this is being caused by the Bushing Nut loosening, allowing the flats to become disengaged and the sharp edges of the chassis to saw through the Bushing. I have tightened the Nut as much as I am comfortable, but still had a failure after 3 days of a newly installed Bushing. Short of trying Loc-Tite on the Bushing threads, I have no idea what to do to prevent this.
What am I doing wrong and how can I prevent this? Is there any source for a brass Bushing? Do I have to simply resign myself to tightening the Bushing Nut before every session?
I have replaced the aluminum cutter with the plastic one, which seems to have smoothed things out. When the Bushing is intact, the cranking action is smooth and easy.
- Re: Supermatic Bushing(P-37) Failures
- Posted by Dave L on Thursday, 16-Aug-2007
I've never had the bushing nut loosen. The concave side of the nut should face the housing so that the points around the perimeter can dig into the housing.
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...Three days isn't enough for wear failure and you'd be having other symptoms if that was the case. Your failures are much more likely the result of over tightening the nut, the already over tensioned and stressed bushing failing under the additional load of everyday usage (try tightening a bushing to the breaking point and you'll have the same point of failure)... excessive downward pressure on the crank handle could also be a factor.
- Re: Supermatic Bushing(P-37) Failures
- Posted by mike c on Thursday, 16-Aug-2007
funny thing with my bushing experience, I removed my supermatic one, only to discover it had cracked but was still functioning like someone on here had said they can/do/would......BUT, the new one I had to replace it didn't seem to like me, wouldn't allow the nut on, and I ended up sawing it up into a useless piece of plastic.....however, superglue easily fixed the original......
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the problem being described here doesn't seem to fit our "known" universe, and if it isn't a matter of you overtightening (I myself, discovered that tightening, once again, as is a "theme" with so many of these parts, "just to", is the way to go), then I'd jump on RBA (in a friendly manner, of course) just my 2 cents
- Re: Supermatic Bushing(P-37) Failures
- Posted by DonD on Saturday, 03-Nov-2007
Hi guys,
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A couple months in and I am still running through bushings like water. I am now on bushing number EIGHT!. I have tried every tightening tension you can think of. I am notorious for many things but overtightening things isn't one. The failures actually seem to occur on a too loose, rather than too tight bushing. God, how I wish someone would source a brass bushing for these things. I don't know who RBA is, only Arbro, which is who is getting my monthly installments for bushings.
Thanks for all the kind words and support.
- Re: Supermatic Bushing(P-37) Failures
- Posted by mike c on Saturday, 03-Nov-2007
that is so darn strange...I believe this is a call for superdave
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my supermatic had a cracked bushing when taken apart that was still functioning
it has now been replaced but I have it
I just can't comprehend this problem....could you possibly be putting downward pressure somehow (though I am sure you have read all things and know how it's supposed to be used)
I just purposely examined myself today to see if I was applying downward pressure, and I am not
here is hoping Dave gets here soon or someone that can figure that out!!!
- Re: Supermatic Bushing(P-37) Failures
- Posted by DonD on Sunday, 04-Nov-2007
Since I am not the only household member using the machine, I am keen to ask if there is any downward, or anyting other than lateral pressure being applied. I am assured that this is not the case.
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I am pretty mechanically inclined. I do pistol smithing and know my way around engines. The Supermatic is a pretty remedial machine, but since I am not privy to its design perameters, I am baffled by these failures. No doubt, that plastic bushing is the engineering, "weak link", but I still think a brass bushing would do the trick. As long as I have a back-stock of replacement bushings on hand, it's really not that big of a deal; just a headache.
The only thing I haven't tried is "peening" the squares on the nut(P-38), in order to get better bite on the chasis. I may try this next.
- Re: Supermatic Bushing(P-37) Failures
- Posted by mike c on Sunday, 04-Nov-2007
as I was just walking home I was puzzling over this
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this is where I may apply a wrong term to a part, but too tired and lazy to look
could it maybe just maybe be something wrong with the metal axel?? something sharp or just something that is grinding on the plastic??
just a thought...until somebody nails this
RBA is the parent company now owning the machines- another thought I had was for you to contact them and ask for a replacement machine, since this is not a normal thing ...RBA=Robert Burton Associates- I have come to find out that a person I have spoken with there is as high as it gets, his name is Kevin Dunn the info on them should be searchable here
- Re: Supermatic Bushing(P-37) Failures
- Posted by George on Monday, 05-Nov-2007
8 Bushings? Something is wrong! Installation or some other part that is causing the failure. This is usually caused by downward pressure on the handle. I have never heard of anyone breaking a bushing in a matter of days. I am not trying to to sound mean, but I also don't think you should continue to purchase bushings if they are not lasting (even if you are purchasing them from my company). I would like to see you using your machine to roll quality cigarettes and save money, not to continue replacing parts at such a high rate.
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George
GM/VP ARBRO Inc.
- Re: Supermatic Bushing(P-37) Failures
- Posted by DonD on Monday, 05-Nov-2007
Wow! George, thanks so much for your response and your interest in my problem. Very impressive!
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As I stated, I am no mechanical idiot. You are welcome to come shoot one of my 1911s to prove this point. I am extremely meticulous when it comes to machines and I am 100% certain that these bushings are installed correctly and the nut, tensioned properly. I have run my finger around the inside of the chasis hole and have found no inordinate burrs. I have inspected the crank-arm spindle for true and it does not appear to be bent, or skewed. All contact surfaces have been treated with very expensive synthetic lubricant. I have replaced the OEM aluminum cutter with a plastic cutter from you. Insofar as I can tell, everything about this machine is spot-on. However, without a quadrangular schematic, I cannot be certain.
One thing you should know however, is that 'Murphy' is my UNCLE!
- Re: Supermatic Bushing(P-37) Failures
- Posted by Freddie on Monday, 05-Nov-2007
have you tried a bushing with no synthetic lubricant?
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- Re: Supermatic Bushing(P-37) Failures
- Posted by DonD on Wednesday, 14-Nov-2007
Yes. I only lubed the bushing once. It did nothing and I was suspicious that it could be contributing to the loosening.
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I have had the same bushing in since my last post! I ended up having to loc-tite the crank spindle nut, as it kept loosening (probably due to lo-the many bushing replacements, heh). I'm knocking on wood right now, but hopefully success will continue.
- Re: Supermatic Bushing(P-37) Failures
- Posted by mike c on Wednesday, 14-Nov-2007
I just had words with an authority about this, this a.m., and there is a concern if you could possibly have any other bent parts that could be contributing???
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again, it is so strange, as this just isn't normal........I still suggest possibly getting hands on a diff machine, if nothing else to compare.....but the advice I was given is that other parts out-of-whack may be the underlying cause......
also, I'm in agreement with the site owner that no lube is really needed anywhere on a machine so long as it's all aligned just right
- Re: Supermatic
- Posted by Jim on Thursday, 19-Jul-2007
I've been SYO smokes for almost a month. I started with a QuickFill handheld but within a few days the tube cracked. Rather than taking a chance on another plastic handheld I took the plunge and bought a Supermatic. The place I bought it, Discount Cigarette Mart on Broadview Rd. in Cleveland, has both the Supermatic and Top-o-matic for $39.99
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Though I'm not exactly fast with it, it is definitely faster than the handheld, and it makes good smokes. It took only a couple cigarettes to get used to it, and I'm glad I bought it. Unfortunately I didn't know about the improved version until after I bought and used the one I have. Is there an easy way to determine if the one I have can use the new style parts?
Alternately, I have a piece of titanium (Ti6Al4V) and am considering using it to fabricate a cutter. Any opinions on the use of a titanium alloy cutter?
- Re: Supermatic
- Posted by Dave L on Friday, 20-Jul-2007
See Supermatic B and 500-series [link] for new H-link and plastic cutter/compressor compatibility. While harder metals should reduce scoring issues, I think plastic will be better at preventing gunk buildup under the cutter. I've been quite happy with my adjustable cutter [link].
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- Re: Supermatic
- Posted by Jim on Friday, 20-Jul-2007
Thanks for the links. The serial number is like 5 ##### and it has brass bolts rather than acorn nuts so it must be a 500 series.
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Anyone out there using a plastic cutter on a 500 series machine?
- Re: Supermatic
- Posted by David Brown on Friday, 27-Jul-2007
I was told by Arbro in June that a 500 series WAS upgradable. When I went to order on the 25th of July I was told the 500 series Could NOT use the new cutter.
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Kinda pissed me off but if it cant, it cant I guess. I ordered a new one and got it today and the new model (I guess it is a C since there is a sticker inside that has a large C on it and the serial number just has numbers) just plain rocks. the new cutter is so slick on the fill stroke I thought I broke the spring at first, there is 0 friction.
- Re: Supermatic
- Posted by Dave L on Wednesday, 01-Aug-2007
I'm the one that thinks that, while not a perfect fit due to the .1mm smaller posts, the plastic cutter should fit/work in the Supermatic II and 500. I base that on the aluminum Supermatic cutter fitting/working in a Supermatic II. Since you now have both a C (A/B/C) and 500 you could, if you feel adventurous, confirm or deny this. The new Supermatic linkage will not work in the Supermatic II or 500.
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- keeping the rubber pad on
- Posted by yehuda manne on Friday, 13-Jul-2007
I just got my Supermatic today, the new version with
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plastic cutter, etc, and it works very well. The rubber base
was off the machine, and it's obviously
supposed to stretch and fit, but it flops around. This
may be a stupid question, (Im good at asking stupid questions)
but aside from glue, does anyone have some advice about
how to get this thing to stay put?
thanks
- Re: keeping the rubber pad on
- Posted by David Brown on Friday, 13-Jul-2007
Keep in mind mine is an older one but there is a little groove in the rubber pad that mates to the metal edge of the machine and I just put on one corner and just work it around the machine and once it is in the groove mine stays pretty well
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- Re: keeping the rubber pad on
- Posted by David Brown on Friday, 27-Jul-2007
I just got a new super today and the rubber base seems to be made of a different type of rubber. It is harder than my 500 series so I took the old one off the 500 and put on the new one :)
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- Release plate binding
- Posted by Rob S on Tuesday, 10-Jul-2007
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I just bought a new Supermatic, C series. When I crank the machine, towards the end of the stroke, as the bearing/elbow on the crank lever makes contact with the selector switch plate, the stroke will continue past that point (opening / releasing the gripper) and the elbow will get caught, or seat itself, in between that angle formed between the gripper plate and the selector switch plate. This angle between the two plates changes when the selector switch is moved between the three different sizes (100's, king, regular) causing the curve of the elbow on the crank lever to bind somewhat more or less...depending upon the adjustment.
Is this normal?
Should the stroke go that far?
- Re: Release plate binding
- Posted by mike c on Tuesday, 10-Jul-2007
Hi Rob
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I'll try to give an answer my style, until maybe somebody else comes along with better
I set all my machines with no time release on the 100 setting...this means NO contact with the metal time-release plate, etc....I like my smokes well packed and just tap them until there is no overhang
for the King size setting, the spoon-arm should just barely "bump" the release plate, as this is all that is required to let go of the stick....
as for the "regular" size setting, you may as well call me "will robinson"
- Re: Release plate binding
- Posted by Rob S on Thursday, 12-Jul-2007
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Mike, that's pretty much how mine is adjusted right now too. It wasn't intentional though, since I was focused on setting it for "Kings."
The bump is fairly minor now, with no hang up at all.
I do have an idea of how to modify it so as to eliminate the bump altogether, but i'm not going to mess with it just yet. Maybe some time in the future.
- Re: Release plate binding
- Posted by Dave L on Thursday, 12-Jul-2007
See Mods for a way to eliminate the bump/release plate.
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- Re: Release plate binding
- Posted by Rob S on Thursday, 12-Jul-2007
Dave, I like the idea of an adjustable spring tension, with the release plate removed. At first I was a little hesitant to consider such modifications, but I do like to play around with things, so I think I'm going to try it.
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I used to operate a Baumfolder (paper folding) machine many years ago, and I'm quite familiar how to adjust in the way you described.
Thanks for the info
- Re: Release plate binding
- Posted by Dave L on Tuesday, 10-Jul-2007
Is the release plate/selector timing OK? The elbow will bump the release in both directions. The spring on the arm should be strong enough to bring it back over the bump (unless you use too much/moist tobacco and the spoon sticks inside the tube) . A bit of dry lube/grease on the sliding edges can help. As mike indicated, you can also tweak the positioning of the release plate to minimize the bump (PITA).
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- Re: Release plate binding
- Posted by Rob S on Thursday, 12-Jul-2007
Thanks for the info, guys. The spring is strong enough to return the lever to it's starting point, and I've been tweaking the mechanism. I've never owned one of these machines before (well, actually, I did own a Laredo in the early seventies; and I still own a Brown and Williamson blanket roller, that's pret' near 20 years old) and I just wanted to make sure that I am operating it properly within it's intended parameters.
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The more I use it, the more I like it.
Right now I'm trying to figure out how to modify it (if I can) so that the tip (opposite the filter) doesn't get crushed ever so slightly on the nozzle when the stroke is reversed and the spoon retracts from fully extended. I'm not sure if that's a problem with the 100's, since I've only been making kings so far.
I've tried it both ways:
1) extending the spoon completely
2) stopping the stroke just after it engages the release
There are differences, sometimes minor/sometimes more, depending upon the moisture content of the tobacco, and the amount of tobacco in the chamber.
All in all though, I'm very impressed with the quality of the cigarette it produces for such a low cost machine (got mine new for 37$)
- Re: Release plate binding
- Posted by Dave L on Thursday, 12-Jul-2007
There's no reason not to always fully extend the spoon. Are you filling the chamber fully and evenly from end to end? Do your finished smokes have a bit of tobacco protruding from the end and no filter-end voids? Strange as it seems, I wonder if you're using too little tobacco. While using too much/moist tobacco does make it harder for the spoon to retract, its usually tobacco (not the tube) that gets jambed against the nozzle during retraction.
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- Re: Release plate binding
- Posted by Rob S on Saturday, 14-Jul-2007
I hardly ever get a filter end void, but in those rare cases that I do, it's from not filling the chamber properly. Even so, I still do a couple of tamps on the filter end to seat the tobacco against the filter. I'm beginning to understand why most of the old timers refer to this tamping as an art.
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Yes, I do have tobacco protruding from the tips after the finished product, and I have been extending the spoon all the way.
Thanks for your interest in my posts Dave.
- Re: SM and other machine plug variance
- Posted by mike c on Sunday, 24-Jun-2007
before I go to concentrate on other things in life, I pose the question nagging me.....if it's not nozzle size that's causing some machines to give a better fill, and it is something to do with the size of the plug being formed, can somebody please figure this out??? also, why one machine would be more prone to jam and lock up, as well as being tighter before injection, etc...
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thank you
- Re: Supermatic-Precision H-Link
- Posted by Arbro Field Tester on Saturday, 02-Jun-2007
yesterday, after receiving a call (by appoinment) from George at Arbro, one of my questions was actual performance of the new precision H-Link, as opposed to simply longer life and durability (my own thinking assumption)
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Well, I am here to tell you...I does actually improve the performance...they were not kidding
there is nothing wrong with the original, but the new one makes it work even better, a concise, brisk, shot
it's great.....don't slump on getting the link.....(after days of using the original, I put on the new one)
m
- Re: Supermatic-Precision H-Link
- Posted by Wazmo Nariz on Saturday, 02-Jun-2007
Absolutely...anyone with a "B" series Supermatic should immediately order and install the new H-Link and the new cutter/compactor/compressor whatever-you-wanna-call-it--even if you think your machine is working fine. You'll be pleasantly amazed at the difference you'll notice right off the bat.
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- Supermatic vs TOM price
- Posted by cheap & chippy chopper on Friday, 27-Apr-2007
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A few months ago y'all were discussing prices on these two machines.
In case it might be helpful, American Thrust carries the Supermatic at same price as the Top-O ... $40.85.
[link]
of course this PS may not have the legendary plastic cutter, but... ? :-)
- Re: Supermatic vs TOM price
- Posted by mc on Friday, 27-Apr-2007
you're doing fine...FINE I TELL YOU
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there are no Supermatics from the factory with the cutter, you have to WORK to be that blessed
I envision we will be seeing future models of both SM and T-O-M, with them.
also...anyone who read my hype about SM vs Ultimatic, I do wish to point out that the quality differences are VERY VERY slight, and both machines are great, I still like the looser action spring on the Hildbrandt, I just DON'T like that I couldn't put the plastic cutter on mine....I was thinking however that most of the "boys" here are more technical than me, and could probabaly find a way to get it on (to the machine).....also...so as not to post too much I hope anyone that read about my silicone spray promotion will see this.....it is GREAT, on a stiff new machine....my new Ultimatic has been devouring it...otherwise it is not needed but fun to apply now and again
capiche? or nix-capiche?
- Supermatic Destroys All Competition
- Posted by Michael Coleman on Thursday, 26-Apr-2007
I have decided to put it in black and white.
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While I think I did a clever job of not being totally deceptive, I withheld blatant knowledge due to my great appreciation of the Ultimatic salesman, whom gave me the greatest and happiest gift I have ever received.
The reason I use ONE of my Hildbrandt Ultimatics daily (the first) is because of what it represents to me.
So here we go.....the Premier Supermatic is BUILT STRONGER and BETTER QUALITY than the Ultimatic. I like the APPEARANCE of the Ultimatic better than the SM, but there you are.
Today, I have used both my Supermatic with it's dazzling "turbo acetal gray supercutter" and also my second brand new Ultimatic while my other Ultimatic remains unheard from due to it's being left in the car of one of the meanest human beings on earth yet soemone I love more than most....PARADOX...(person doesn't answer telephones, nor takes time with emails, so I take on faith it is safe and sound)
Here is what I wish to let you in on: THE SUPERMATIC MODIFIED WITH THE PLASTIC CUTTER KICKS ASS SO BAD IT'S NOT EVEN FUNNY!!! I have not used a TOPOMATIC, but I am pretty smart and I HIGHLY DOUBT you can achieve this AMAZING performance without a plastic cutter!!! OK???
next, said it before, say it again.....if you are not scared, using SILICONE SPRAY (get the kind with the extension tube) on machines with an aluminum cutter, you will get a kick out of the performance it brings,,,,it does NOT interfere with the tobacco in any noticeable way, so if it helps to kill you, it's a pleasant killer.
and finally, someone commented about being "forced" to read my "jibberish" regarding an "OFF" thread.....the control freak ego gets a kick, but nevermind, the nice takes over and wishes to help you----if you see the word OFF appearing ANYWHERE in a subject line, and you are not a flexible person, DO NOT PURSUE READING!!!!! the word off is put there for a VERY GOOD REASON!! this is standard procedure on forums......
also, my bases were covered from the very beginning.....momma didn't raise no fool! Dave Lers has prior EXPRESS PERMISSION to completely NUKE and UTTERLY ANNIHILATE ANYTHING and EVERYTHING I ever did, AM DOING or WILL DO, without offending me
so I hope this rather long mail isn't an offense...the moral of it is----if you are looking for a machine...GET A SUPERMATIC that allows for installation of the plastic cutter procurable from Arbro, inc, take the time to do this and install it and you've got THE BEST!!!!
- A Question About Gripper Caps
- Posted by domestic MC on Friday, 16-Feb-2007
I put a new one on my Ultimatic (spectacular machine, BTW), and it grips so tight it quickly got a big dent on the side of use...but it works flawlessly
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my question....how do you know/what happens when, one is actually on it's deathbed???
Dave Brock
- Re: A Question About Gripper Caps
- Posted by scott johnson on Friday, 16-Feb-2007
you can take it off and turn it around 180 degrees.
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otherwise, store the machine with the chamber open and the gripper not touching the nozzle.
if it stops gripping the tube, it's dead. otherwise, flip it around and use it for a while longer. There are options for replacements. I picked up some fuel line for R/C cars at the hobby shop to use on mine. 2ft for about $2. I just cut off a short piece and stuck it on in place of the stock gripper cap.
sj
- A Question About Rivets
- Posted by Wazmo Nariz on Wednesday, 07-Feb-2007
A couple months back I had the rivet which the release plate pivots on pop out during use (the rivet you can see the end of if you look down into the tobacco chamber). I J&B Welded it once, which held for about a month, and had to do it again, which lasted about as long.
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I noticed that this rivet is available as a replacement part from Arbro...my question is, how does one install a rivet such as this? Thanks.
- Re: A Question About Rivets
- Posted by Kizer Sosa on Wednesday, 07-Feb-2007
I believe it's a "pop" rivet. (even if it isn't, a pop rivet will probably work) You can buy the tool at any hardware or home store. They run about 12 to 20 bucks. Looks like a pair of pliers with a gimmick on the business end. Takes a couple practice rivets to figure out how the thing works, but after that, it's easy.
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For that matter, you can also probably find the same size rivet there as well and save the shipping cost and hassle that an Arbro order would entail.
- Re: A Question About Rivets
- Posted by Kizer Sosa on Wednesday, 07-Feb-2007
On second thought...
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Just took a look at the thing from underneath, and now I'm not sure a pop rivet would work.. it looks like the nut is threaded onto the rivet?
Never heard of a rivet with threads on it... that's a whole different ballgame.
Sorry for the mixed information... I've got to go and look at it a third time and figure out what I'm missing here. In the meantime, maybe someone here has some actual experience with installing that part.
- Re: A Question About Rivets
- Posted by Wazmo Nariz on Wednesday, 07-Feb-2007
Yeah, the "underside" of the rivet is threaded which accepts the nut which holds the release plate in place. I'm familiar with plain old rivets, but like you said, this particular one is a bit different. I've had this machine over two years now and would hate to junk it (perfect condition otherwise) over such a seemingly trivial thing... .
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- Re: A Question About Rivets
- Posted by scott johnson on Wednesday, 07-Feb-2007
I believe the rivet has to be inserted then a center punch used to expand it. if you look down into the tobacco chamber at the rivet, you can see the center of the rivet where it has been struck with a punch.
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- Re: A Question About Rivets
- Posted by mike c on Friday, 16-Feb-2007
Wazmo...please report on the rivnut replacement or whatever you ended up doing...it's important
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Sonny
- Re: A Question About Rivets
- Posted by Wazmo Nariz on Friday, 16-Feb-2007
Yeah, sorry I failed to report back on this. I spoke with George Armstrong, the VP of ARBRO -- he told me that he places the rivet in a jig to hold it in place. He then places the mahine over it and punches the rivet through the opening of the cutter chamber.
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He reminded me that it's important to check that the rivet is flush with the bottom of the cutter chamber both before and after the punch process. If any material is proud, carefully sand or grind away being careful not to gouge the bottom of the cutter chamber. Also, never overly tighten the nut which holds the release plate on the rivet if you ever remove it for anything, as this can loosen the rivet's grip on the mounting hole and eventually cause failure. Undoubtedly this is probably what occured to mine as I had taken the entire thing apart about a week before it failed. I noticed I had tightened the rivet nut a little too tight because the release plate wouldn't operate at all, so I backed off it a bit.
- Re: A Question About Rivets
- Posted by mike c on Friday, 16-Feb-2007
so what did you do? tell me tell me
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- Re: A Question About Rivets
- Posted by Wazmo Nariz on Friday, 16-Feb-2007
I took a block of aluminum I found lying around and had a friend drill a hole into it that the rivet could sit down in (the end with the threads) that was just deep enough so that the bottom of the rivet was held up when the Premier was placed over it. A good hard whack with a punch and that puppy is in there solid. A small bit of the rivet did protrude after the punching, but a quick visit from Mr. Dremel took care of that ... .
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- Supermatic Sighting!
- Posted by Captain U-96 aka Mike on Tuesday, 30-Jan-2007
Just last week on one of my tobacco quests I noticed that the Premier Supermatic was priced the same as the Topomatic at $39.99. Then, at a different place I checked out the price was $43.99 for the Premier Supermatic. Today, in the same place (a mom & pop) cigarette/tobacco shop the price was $57.99 for the P.S., and $40 for the Tom! They also sold tubes at a fair price, $2.29 for Top FF, and $1.29 for Gambler FF.If I preferred P. Supermatic machines I'd be looking to get a backup, or just spare machine. Prices will only go up from here on it looks like! The Supermatic 2 was priced at $42.99. MIke
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- Re: Supermatic Sighting!
- Posted by mike c on Tuesday, 30-Jan-2007
it's good to see shops paying attention to which machine is which in terms of quality and build....and nice to see Top offering theirs as a machine for those on a budget.
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The Supermatic with the new cutter works so well, that if you turn your head and look away, you couldn't tell an injection was taking place....if I had no tube on the machine, I feel confident to report that the tobacco plug would slam into the wall (about 5 feet in my case, give or take)
I thought you were getting a spare Topomatic!!! (last minute doubts??)
hope you enjoyed my total BS, Teee Heeee HAHA WEEEEEEEE
- Re: Supermatic Sighting!
- Posted by Captain U-96 aka Mike on Tuesday, 30-Jan-2007
No, no last minute doubts! Up until last year all I had was Supermatics! No doubt in my mind it is a Q-1 product, but since the Topomatic works so well, and has not given me any grief, I'll stick with it for the time being. I did pick up a spare TOM for $39 at Drug Mart, and have been using it to make my Look Out Milde Shag smokes. I just got an e-mail from Lil Brown stating they have Look Out MS in stock again for $6.40 a 7.05 oz tin. Can't beat that price! Mike
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- Re: Supermatic Sighting!
- Posted by dan s on Saturday, 03-Feb-2007
I just did a quick search around the net for Premier Supermatics. The prices ranged from $37 to $60. Most common price seemed to be $45.
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I am going to the store today to get some tubes, I know they have the supes in stock, if the price is right I might get one. My Excel is starting to show some wear it might be time to upgrade?
- Re: Supermatic Sighting!
- Posted by dan s on Sunday, 04-Feb-2007
Well I finaly broke down and bought the Supe.
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They had them for $38 which seemed like a pretty good price.
It works well. I set it for 100's to stuff KS.
It has quite a differnt feel then the Excel and will take a bit of getting used to. The tobacco chamber seems to be smaller then the Excel. The Excel is also alot easier to hold on to while pulling on the crank. I tried making some filterless smokes using Athey tubes and they came out terrible, i had better luck with the Excel which isn't supposed to make filterless. I will eventualy check tube release, spoon length and any other adjustments. But since it works OK I am not going to mess with it for a while. The Excell also seems to be more forgiving with moister tobacco.
- Supermatic
- Posted by Larry S on Wednesday, 24-Jan-2007
Man I'm glad that I just found this site. I have been using the Supermatic for about 3 years now I have gone thru 3 machines so far. The first one I just got so mad at it I put it in the garbage and bought a new one. The second one I have after a using it for awhile I started having the same problems as the first one. It was binding and so bad I could'nt even push the tobacco in the tube. So I bought a new one but did not throw the second one away. With my third machine I started taking it apart and cleaning it every time I had done making 2 bags of tobacco ( 2 pounds per bag ). I spray fantastik on all the parts then wipe them clean and put it back together and use 3 in 1 oil on the moving parts. This seemed to work for a while but then it would do the binding thing again so I ordered new part. I ordered new spoons, cutters, H links, springs, rubber tips to hold the tubes. After I got all the parts ( the cutter is now made of plastic ) I put the machine together and guess what it still did not work it still is binding I can't use it. So I went to buy a new one and I saw the Top O Matic and bought it. I have had my Top O Matic for almost 2 weeks now and when making a cig. now it won't hold the tube to fill it all the way. I called the company and they told me to send it back to them and they are sending me a new one they said it has a handle on it I have no idea what it looks like I can't find it on the Internet that's how I found this site. So now I have 2 Supermatic's and 1 Top O Matic. Now I need to figure out on how to fix my Supermatic's
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- Re: Supermatic
- Posted by mike c on Thursday, 25-Jan-2007
interesting...there are supposedly "good" and "bad" machines but you've had a 3-time repeater. I am guessing your answer is to be found amongst the lists "using, tuning, and servicing", however I'd love to see a response from someone who knows....all I can imagine is "buildup" occuring in a common place.
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I am not sure anyone here has had this level of malfunction
- Re: Supermatic
- Posted by scott johnson on Thursday, 25-Jan-2007
Sounds like your tobacco is too moist. Mine will bind if I overload the chamber with really moist tobacco. The Golden Harvest full flavor I just bought is 81% relative humidity in the bag. Way to moist for stuffing. I dry it out for a half hour before stuffing. It then works fine.
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My machine is about 25 - 30 years old. All original parts as far as I can tell. It stuffs cigarettes perfectly as long as the tobacco is dry enough and not overloaded.
sj
- Re: Supermatic
- Posted by Bozo the Clown on Friday, 26-Jan-2007
I agree with Mike, no way you're going to find three "bad" machines in a row.
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You're probably hammering on the thing a little too hard. They're not flimsy, but they're not built like a tank either. A little bit of finesse goes a long way.
- Re: Supermatic
- Posted by Re: the killer clowns from outer space on Friday, 26-Jan-2007
this may be a very unuseful "stretch", but could the spoon screw be getting tightened to a point of restricting the arm travel? this can happen on my Ultimatic (dry heave)...
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or could there be dirt in the spoon pathway causing binding?
what is occurring here.....
???
mc
- Re: Supermatic
- Posted by Captain U-96 aka Mike on Wednesday, 31-Jan-2007
Try removing the spoon, and cleaning the inside tube, and spoon with alcohol. This was one of the problems I had with all my Supermatics. They need cleaned more often when moist tobacco is used, and I never figured out how tobacco residue gets behind the spoon. Mike
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- Supermatic: Mechanical- vs Tobacco-Related Binding?
- Posted by mike p on Thursday, 15-Feb-2007
Had consistent binding problems with my Supermatic until I removed the aluminum cutter and saw that the edge nearest the injector tube was rounded from grinding on the cutter chamber. The cause of the grinding is that the H-Link advances the cutter at an angle.
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This creates "logjams" - a little tobacco gets into the crevice and constricts flow - much like arterial clotting or river logjams. Replaced it with new cutter. No problems.
My bet with Larry's problem is the tobacco is too moist as has been noted in other replies.
- Re: Supermatic
- Posted by mike c on Sunday, 07-Jan-2007
I have discovered that getting "hands-on" with the Supermatics isn't quite the big scare I thought it was....if you're spirit is gifted with wisdom, this should carry you through nearly as well as an academic mind.....now for the "mods" section...that may require more!! lol
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- Re: Supermatic
- Posted by Matt on Sunday, 07-Jan-2007
One thing I CAN vouch for is the ease of takedown/reassembly of the Supermatic. I bought a Top-O-Matic several months ago and at first was amazed at how long it took until I finally had to take it apart. When that time came, however, I realized I had a chintzy piece of crap. I was so afraid I'd break something taking it apart that I never put it back together again. So now it sits in pieces like Humpty Dumpty put away on a shelf. I was disgusted. I'd strongly recommend anyone to just save up the extra money and get a back-up Supermatic.
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- Re: Supermatic
- Posted by mike c on Sunday, 07-Jan-2007
and Matt's post here (not his first warning) was my exact reason for my "flip a coin comment" ....we are not all Dave Lers
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- Re: Supermatic
- Posted by mike c on Sunday, 07-Jan-2007
duh ohhh, I meant this was not his first warning about shelf with tangled parts
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- Re: Supermatic
- Posted by Matt on Sunday, 07-Jan-2007
...nor is it my first use of the word "chintzy" to describe the Top-O-Matic. This word and "3rd world" kept coming to mind when taking it apart because it seemed something was bound to snap in two. (...didn't happen, much to my amazement.)
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- Re: advanced questions for the long-time users
- Posted by mike c on Sunday, 07-Jan-2007
I believe I have both my machines set "right on" and I'd be grateful for feedback...
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I still have not broken my habit of liking to inject slightly moist tobacco....I do dry it out 20-30 min or so accordingly, but don't like it bone dry....I use both my machines on the 100mm setting, and have discovered (me being an expert tamper of many years) that 6 tamps seems to be the very best number to seat the 'baccy perfectly all the way to filter and flush with tip, with slightly moist product....less if dryer.....using 15-17mm filters.....it seems to me like the king-size setting would be good for 20mm filters, etc......what do you say??? have I learned, or does my tool-kit need to come out again??? (as stated before, I like my sticks TIGHT) thanks mc
- Re: advanced questions for the long-time users
- Posted by Captain U-96 aka Mike on Sunday, 07-Jan-2007
Mike, each machine is different! Leave the tool kit alone; unless you are prepared to buy another machine. Maybe I been lucky, but I have never had to do any adjustments in all my years of using these machines. I use the settings indicated by the manufacturer. My Topomatic has by far been the best machine I've owned! I generally give each stick a tamp or two out of habit. I prefer a little overhang so I can trim it with cutters; thus producing a smoke that looks identical to store bought. The obvious difference is in the taste and quality tobacco in my smokes. What you are asking, Mike, is subjective to each person's preferences. Some folks want perfection--some like me are willing to tamp and trim. I'd suggest you develop you own formula. Chances are you'll have one for each machine you own; as they are as individualistic as people. You'd like my Topomatic. It produces firm sticks all day long, and if I'm not careful too tight to smoke! Experiment, live and learn, and above all else enjoy what you do, Mike! What do you think of the Hildabrandt so far? Facts man, facts. Mike
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- Re: Supermatic
- Posted by "Supermatic" b-series comapred to "Ultimatic" on Sunday, 07-Jan-2007
I decided to go ahead with this, even though Newton isn't ready with the Ultimatics just yet ....maybe I'll do it again then.
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I replaced the gripper and size selector on my Ultimatic, because I overtightened the screw holding the selector in place (learing curve)...in the process I discovered there are 2 versions of Supermatics....b series (mine, Canadian made, even though box has RBA on it), and 500 series (American made)...this is the best knowledge I could get from the short phone-time, etc....I believe she said there are 5 non-interchangeable parts!!! hmmmmm......anyway, I am not sure if the difference between my 2 machines is the "luck of the draw" or is because the Ultimatic has been improved!!??? I have spent quality time on both machines now and report this.....the "action" on the Supermatic is tight, and if not for the Havoc method my arm could get tired/sore (but it doesn't).....the Supermatic is prone to more easily jamming or locking up, which of course doesn't really happen now anyway, since I learned....but anyway....the Ultimatic is MUCH smoother, doesn't lock or jam (I am trying to recall if it EVER did). Most importantly, even though I tend to clean my compressor lightly with alcohol and q-tip after each session, the Supermatic collects tiny pieces of tobacco on the top of the compressor, with a few 'stuck on' places along the pressing edge....not a problem, but the Ultimatic DOESN'T do this....nothing on top sticking, collecting.......and further...the darker gray edging along the circumference of body doesn't allow collecting dust to be seen as compared to the Supermatic which does, after you've had a pretty good session, etc.....The Brass injection tube on the Ultimatic is of slightly larger diameter, and I believe I have discovered what I had suspected, however am open to nasty debate on this topic (kidding)...I have discovered that the Ultimatic can pack so tight and so well, that I could actually "lower" the amount of tobacco just slightly so that it could be tamped down tightly against 15mm filters....this was not happening with the Supermatic and I feel it is due to a smaller nozzle...I personally like the idea of my sticks being crammed as tightly as humanly possible into the circumference....the rubber base on the Ultimatic snaps on tighter, which I don't see as better or worse, since the Supermatic one seems to be a little loose.
and lastly...the lube on my Supermatic caused tobacco dust and particles to adhere to it (this may be because it's reconditioned?) whereas the Ultimatic wasn't "gummy" and i just frequently use silicone on it without that mess.
- Supermatic
- Posted by Major Havoc on Sunday, 03-Dec-2006
First, great site overall... I learned a lot today and I'll try to visit often.
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Thought I'd chime in on the use of the Big Blue Supermatic... I think I have an idea that you may like. Maybe someone else mentioned this, but if they didn't, you're going to smack yourself in the forehead over this.
When I got mine about two months ago, I too was confounded by the ergonomics of the thing... the big "circular" turn of the crank as well as having no real good place to hold the thing steady while the process was occurring. Quite the PITA.
There are a couple good mods posted here on how to deal with this... but I didn't see this one... it may be the simplest of all and will likely impress you in it's efficiency... no tools or modifications necessary!
Are ya ready??? OK, here ya go....
Simply orient the machine so that the nozzle is pointing at you. (yeah, I know, we see the "Premier" label on top of the machine and we think it's supposed to face us while we work... think again!)
Again.... Turn the machine vertically so the nozzle is pointing at you.
Try it this way, and you'll notice right away that the process is easier:
Left hand pushes the 'baccy into the chute, while the right hand affixes a tube.
Left hand.. form an "L" with your index finger and thumb and hold the machine down on the lower left corner.
Right hand.. pull the crank straight back toward you.
This eliminates the quirky "circular" motion of the crank, as well as the interference between your hands and the crank during the motion.
Plus, it gives quite a bit more power to those who find the crank hard to move... you only need a couple fingers hooked around the knob and it's as easy and as natural as pulling your beer off the bar. :)
Furthermore, I'll point out that this "pullback" method appears to eliminate any tendency to exert the downward pressure on the crank that can cause eventual failure.
Try it and tell me what you think...
Cheers!
- Change of Orientation
- Posted by Chip Wedge on Monday, 15-Nov-2010
Absolutely! I've been using the Supermatic for four or five months, and having initially read the cautions regarding downward pressure, I decided that pointing the nozzle directly toward me would best allow me to respect the crank shaft's axis. Turns out it's superior for gauging and controlling the torque applied, too. Found your post, and was glad to see that others share the perspective!
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- Supermatic on sale at D&R
- Posted by Bob on Thursday, 16-Nov-2006
Supermatic is 'on sale' at D&R for 34.95, noticed on 11-16-06 Dont know how long price has been at that point.
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[link]
- Supermatic
- Posted by Wazmo Nariz on Friday, 10-Nov-2006
To quote that salty old sage Popeye, "Well blow me down!" I was busy cranking out a smoke earlier when I heard a peculiar noise inside old Blue and the tube grip seemed to slip down. I flipped it over, removed the mat and saw that the little rivet that is pressed into the bottom of the tobacco chamber that serves as the pivot had popped out.
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Does anyone know whether this part is available from anywhere and/or how to install a new one, or is my two year old el machino destined for the scrape heap? That would be a shame seeing as how it's in otherwise perfect health....
- Re: Supermatic
- Posted by Wazmo Nariz on Friday, 10-Nov-2006
Picked up some JB Weld...a little dab on the rivet, pushed it back in with some pliers and it's good as new. *Whew*.
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- Re: Supermatic
- Posted by scott johnson on Friday, 10-Nov-2006
Hmmm, gonna try that in a few minutes.
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- Re: Supermatic
- Posted by scott johnson on Saturday, 11-Nov-2006
Well, got it fixed. cleaned up all surfaces and used the JB Weld. Rivet is now back in. Also had to use some JBW on the spoon screw and spoon threads. Both worn and I don't have any replacement parts, yet.
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Spoon was smooth along the edge. I don't know if these old machines had the serrated edges on the spoon as the new ones do. Anyway, I used my dremel and cut the edges along the spoon like on my Excel. It sure stuffs good now.
The markings on the release adjustment are worn off. Can someone tell me what they are supposed to say? From left to right.
- Re: Supermatic
- Posted by Kev on Saturday, 11-Nov-2006
Left: 100mm
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Middle: King Size Filter
Right: Regular Size Filter
Interesting since there is an extra notch either side of the middle setting. I use the far left for the spouses 100mm. I use the middle and sometimes middle left for my king size smokes. The middle left comes in handy when my tobacco is a little too moist - delays the release.
- Re: Supermatic
- Posted by scott johnson on Sunday, 12-Nov-2006
Thanks a bunch for the reply. I have been using far left for Vera Cruz and Ramback tubes (20mm filter), Middle for Zen/3 Castles with 17mm filters. Is working fine so far. But, after reading your reply, I think the release is a little out of adjustment. but, since I don't do 100mm tubes, I'll leave it alone.
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I just checked. This is an old Supermatic. Doesn't have the extra notches. but, I could rest the switch between notches if needed.
Thanks again
- Re: Supermatic
- Posted by bored mc on Friday, 10-Nov-2006
thank god. I was concerned! (going back through the thread about machines I believe I saw somebody else that "sprung a rivet"..Surely this will happen to others and now they will not panic!! I am afraid of the cranks just a little as I have NO technical skill...If I get one hopefully I can be guided with baby-steps.)
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confession...my life fell apart and all I have is tobacco, tubes, a couple friends, and this site.
Taxes are going up $1.oo here in Texas come january, from $.41 per pack to $1.41. I've been reading about it and it is just going to cause deaths from black market thieves and smugglers etc. Seems Texas law-makers don't recall history.
I phoned a tobacco shop today just to bitch since I love bitching so terribly much, and was informed that the MYO industry here is going up 20-45 percent as well come january 2007. Since I am a little slow in the head, and no calculater at moment, I guess I will appeal to you guys on how many pounds to mail-order to make it work perfect.
I have been checking for posts all day...thank god for you,,,somewbody post something...I was almost tempted to send a fake post with a name like Sindee and pretend I was in love with my new Fresh Choice...it almost seems to be a women's club.. (I hope I don't get kicked out for posting too much)
- Re: Supermatic
- Posted by scott johnson on Saturday, 11-Nov-2006
These crank machines can take quite a beating. I have the excel which i use daily to make 2 - 3 packs/day. It has held up quite well. it actually hasn't needed any repair at all, though i did order a few extra parts just to have on hand.
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I normally order enough tobacco and tubes to make 4 cartons of smokes. depending on where you order from, that will cost from $35 to $60
- Re: Supermatic
- Posted by Captain U-96 aka Mike on Sunday, 12-Nov-2006
No, to my knowledge nobody has been "kicked out" for posting too much. This site has a wealth of information on the MYO--RYO way of enjoying tobacco to the fullest. As to how much tobacco you buy is up to you. Please just post as yourself! Nothing is served by Shilling; as it sticks out like a sore thumb and everyone notices it for what it is. If you can't find the answers to your questions, ask, and I'm sure someone will point you in the right direction. Mike
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- Re: Supermatic
- Posted by Warrior on the Edge of Time on Sunday, 12-Nov-2006
hullo folks,,,only posting today to address the good cap'n above....because I think it pertains to me although it is under scott's ...and no I have not been looking here all day nor will I be here all night lol! First off...i hope it's ok that i am not entirely here about my (so far) (widely unanswered questions)..i am here for the "fellowship" as well..(can't spell the proper word at moment)...and I understand the HH's are not so popular here so I will be on my own a bit....as for my tobacoo quantity question, yes that may have been a bit much but I did get answered by scott...as for you...I wanted to say that I indeed got a kick off the "looki see, and gee wizz bang" thing...and you taught me a word today...had to go look up
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shilling to get your meaning so as to see if you referred to my frequently changing monikers....
If I *had* done a fake post, it would have been the most glaringly outragiously rediculous thing ever seen...but I don't think that type of behaviour would be appreciated and I was joking....everything I ever posted here has been ALL ME!!! and it WILL BE!!!! everybody have a great evening and I will watch and listen and learn (and post)(thanks mike)
michael coleman
- Re: Supermatic
- Posted by Kerry on Sunday, 12-Nov-2006
I think he may have meant to pick a name and stick to it when posting here. It adds to a poster's credibility to use the same name and folks tend to get to know you better. I mean, you don't change your real name everyday, right? ;)
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A "shill" is another thing that is better explained by the link below than I can and IMHO we have had several shill messages posted recently on more than one topic.
[link]
- Re: Supermatic
- Posted by Warrior on the Edge of Time on Sunday, 12-Nov-2006
oh yes Kerry, i did read that twice before actually, I guess the "ing" at the end made me think of loot and I got thrown. As for my title, you got it, i'll stick to this one.
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PLEASE just know that no way in HELL would I be involved with anybody trying to sell anything, if I was going to sell anything it would be music. Nothing fake here. BTW I am concerned that I have posted my full name, as i was involved in the Fresh Choice bash. We all go sometime I suppose.
also I was happy to see a post about the zig-zag handheld by ANOTHER mike which IS NOT ME,,,,so I guess I will go by Michael since I am the latest I assume.
- Re: Supermatic
- Posted by Kerry on Sunday, 12-Nov-2006
One other thing...
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No offense intended, maybe you should lay off the caffeine? Or your stimulant of choice? Get some SLEEP! LOL!
- Re: Supermatic
- Posted by Warrior on the Edge of Time on Monday, 13-Nov-2006
congradulations...you knocked me senseless, your left hook took me completely off guard. If it were not for the LOL! at the end I may have just swayed a bit and kept upright but I fell down on my knees seeing stars. The truth can pack a nasty blow. If it were my stimulant of choice, I wouldn't be here, my computer would probably be picking up viruses. You had it correct..caffeine, and major stress.
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I have been up conducting important business at night and up early incessantly looking for e-mails, so I have been here and looking at the site a lot. I am used to being very active on lists and being allowed, due to knowlege and creativity. I make a horrid lurker. So I am up and looking in your eyes to see if we shake hands and I get to pass, or if I need to head home. I already have more stuff I'd like to post about, but won't. Horribly embarrasing to have that recorded in the thread, my private e-mail is included.
michael
- Supermatic
- Posted by scott johnson on Friday, 27-Oct-2006
I bought an old red supermatic off ebay and really screwed up while cleaning, lubricating it. I pulled the rivet/stud out that the release timing unit rotates on. I thought I was straightening the linkage (it was supposed to be bent at that point, lol!
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Has anyone else here ever done this or been able to press the rivet back in?
My current idea is to slightly taper the rivet so it will go back in and either MIG it lightly, then grind, or JB Weld it in place. It would cost to much to send it in for repair. I'm hoping I can fix it myself. This is one of the old ones with the spoon mounted on a steel shaft. I would love to just crimp a new spoon onto the old metal rod.
- Re: Supermatic
- Posted by Wazmo Nariz on Friday, 10-Nov-2006
Hah! Glad I wasn't the lone ranger with the rivet problem! The dab o' JB Weld seems to have worked perfectly. I tried to pull it back out with pliers and it wouldn't budge. If you try this, make sure you use a tiny amount...and if any gets inside and dries on the bottom of the fill chamber, be sure to sand it down smooth so's you don't mess the bottom of up your cutter/compactor.
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See Also: Supermatic Archive (Sep '03 - Jun '06)