100mm Tubes
Because the 'matics are multi-purpose machines, making 100's on them can be a bit tricky. I'm not a 100's smoker and I have to say its not the easiest way to make a smoke. Careful attention to fully and evenly filling the chamber is required. The size of the tobacco chamber limits the tobacco plug to ~75mm long and you need every bit of that to get a reasonably full end to end fill. Making 100's is also hard on the machine, noticeably more cranking force is required and tobacco moisture content is more critical.
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- machine for 100mm Tubes
- Posted by cheap & chippy chopper on Tuesday, 04-Dec-2007
I read a lot of reports that most of the crank machines need some kind of adjustment in order to make acceptable 100's.
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The one I bought, the "new" Top-O-Matic (with the big silver handle on it), has a king size and a 100 setting. Both have worked perfectly for me from day one, right out of the box.
hth!
- Making 100's with a Supermatic II
- Posted by Tim Aydt on Tuesday, 17-May-2005
Has anyone tried adjusting the tube release so that you can make 100mm cigs?
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After cleaning and reassembling my 'new' Supermatic II, it works great. My wife has claimed it as her own and says it works better than the Premier Supermatic, for her. So now I am leary of making any modifications, lest I incur her wrath.
- Re: Making 100's with a Supermatic II
- Posted by Kev on Tuesday, 17-May-2005
Tim, is the cutter and tray area the same size as the Premier? I haven't added a Supermatic II to my collection...yet.
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- Re: Making 100's with a Supermatic II
- Posted by Tim Aydt on Tuesday, 17-May-2005
Yes, basically everything is the same, except for the metal case and lever to adjust for tube length. There is an adjustment for when the tube release occurs.
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I see no reason why this couldn't be adjusted to release later or not at all.
- Re: Making 100's with a Supermatic II
- Posted by Dave L on Thursday, 19-May-2005
You'd have to shorten, or remove, the release plate to get a late enough release. Since someone mentioned getting good results without a release, you could try it without the release plate. I think a Supermatic adjustable plate will work if you cut off the adjuster tab. (edited 9-05)
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- Re: Supermatic Premier
- Posted by Bill S. on Thursday, 12-Aug-2004
Alright, now I can make some pretty consistent 100's. Thanks again to and for all that helped with the suggestions! I started over filling the left side of the machine, which is the "exit-side" nozzle side, and made a noticeable difference immediately. I can fill these tubes to within a 1/4" to 1/8" of being completely full. The shop bench where I stuff the cigarettes has overhead lighting and a tabletop hi-intensity lamp. I found that I could point the hi-intensity lamp at the cigarette tube and almost "see-through" it because of the transparency of the tube under the light. I can get a consistent over-pack to "lead-the-spoon" and watch this happen under the light. Generally there is 3/8" to 1/2" inch of tobacco leading the spoon when injecting this mixture. This additional length causes the release setting for the king-size to occur at perfect timing. I went ahead and made approximately 1/2 of a carton like this with greatly improved results. The next barrier that I ran into is that I have found at least 3 cartons of the Zig-Zag 100mm tubes that I have left from a big order that have been made "off-spec." These tubes are too tightly rolled and will not fit on the nozzle of the machine. I found a few that would, with persistence; finally start over the tip. but wouldn't slide on far enough to reach the tube release mechanism. My hand-held Zig-Zag maker has a thinner plastic nozzle and even then they fit very tight. I hope that I don't encounter this again. I was hoping to only use the hand-held while traveling, and not very much at that. Has anyone else ever encountered this off-spec tube thing? I am a little reluctant to order more Zig-Zag 100mm tubes until they get this sizing thing straightened out. Has anyone ever used any other 100mm tube that seems to work well?
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- Re: Supermatic Premier
- Posted by Tim Aydt on Thursday, 12-Aug-2004
Must be a bad batch. I have always found the ZigZag 100's to be, if anything, a little big. I can usually slip them on the nozzle with little conscious effort, unlike some other brands I have used, usually kings. The Premier 100's fit more snug, at least the light tubes. Are you using ZigZag 100's light or regular? I think it was with the ZigZag king regular that I had trouble.
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Good Luck, have you tried twisting the tubes as you slip them on the nozzle?
- Re: Supermatic Premier
- Posted by Bill S. on Saturday, 14-Aug-2004
It is the Zig-Zag "full-flavor" 100mm's. The El Rey tubes that I was using never gave me a problem. Then I found the Zig-Zag tubes on sale, and bought a case. Has anyone had experience with the various Menthol tubes. I bought some Stokers #117 Menthol as it was advertised as being a highly mentholated tobacco. Normally I smoke the Stoker's #2 menthol because it has a lot of menthol. I found that the "Iceberg" was also highly mentholated, also. I think that I am going to have to find some menthol tubes to try this #117 menthol with, in order to use it up. The #117 is very smooth, but with not much menthol. I am looking for some alternative strong menthol tobacco in case my supply of Stoker's #2 diminishes. Does anyone know of another highly mentholated stuffing tobacco? I think I discovered why I prefer the 100's over the king-size, and I think that it maybe due to the increased filter length of the 100's. I had some Farmer's Gold Menthol that I re-hydrated that was pretty harsh and hot in the King-size. I have been able to use it up now that I got the 100's thing to work. I don't think that I will buy the FGM again due to the harshness that I found.
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Back to the tube thing, I have tried every possible method to making these work. I have twisted them, turned them and they are about impossible to use with the Supermatic. I even tried re-hydrating them to add a little moisture so that the rice-paper may stretch a little. I can get them to just barely start over the nozzle then I have to help them a little by prying them on with a fingernail and tapping on the filter end just lightly. I think that they were just possible made off spec. They will, however work on my hand injector, as is; and a friend of mine that is an Excel owner said that his excel nozzle is a little smaller than most hand machines, and he would try them to see if they would easily insert on his machine.
- Re: Supermatic Premier
- Posted by Jim on Monday, 25-Oct-2004
I've run into problems with tight tubes a few time. I use a small pair of scissors with a sharp point and gently "ream" the end of the tube with these and it works fine. The biggest problem I've had with tubes lately were several boxes of Premier full-flavor which weren't properly glued.
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- Re: Supermatic Premier
- Posted by Bill S. on Monday, 09-Aug-2004
Firstly, I have two Premier Supermatic Machines. One is the "vintage" machine with the Brass Cutter, etc. The front lever adjustment says from L to R, "plain-end", "king-size" and "regular-size." This is one of those burgandy-red machines. This thing will make king-filters all day long without a problem. I wanted to make 100mm filter cigarettes so I bought the newer version of the same machine which is the new Blue model which has an aluminum cutter and says behind the adjustment lever on front L to R, "100mm", "king-size-filter" and "regular-size-filter."
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Now for the problem; both machines will not make a very good 100mm cigarette. I have no problem whatsoever with filter end gap. Both machines have been adjusted as per the directions in one of these letters where you set the machine to mid-position and use a "king-size-filter"-tube which is empty to set the machine up to release the moment that the spoon lightly contacts the filter in the tube. In the most left position, both machines have been tested and make the same contact in using the empty 100mm tube. The problem is that the spoon seems too short in both machines. Like I said before, I have no problem with filter-end gap, but I can't get these machines to fill the tubes all of the way out to the end of the cigarette.
To make matters worse, I have tried various filling volumes with seems to help some, but usually I end up with a "king-size" volume cigarette in a 100mm tube which means that I have between 9/16" to 3/8" gap at the end of the cigarette where it is just empty paper. By the time you tap these cigarettes on the filter end to "set" the tobacco, you don't have a much longer cigarette than a king-size-filter length.
Worse yet, I have measured the entire length of both machines' spoons and they are IDENTICAL in length. Now I am really confused because I was told that the new Supermatic had a larger chamber and a longer spoon in order to make these 100mm cigarettes. Now I have two machines that appear identical except the construction on the Vintage machine is a little better and it seems to make a little fuller 100mm cigarette than the new machine that was designed to make them.
Has anyone out there ever encountered this same problem? I am somewhat confused that the machines would have the same length spoon which appears to be too-short and the chambers appear volumetrically the same? When I do the "empty-100mm-tube-test" on each machine, both act the same. I think the problem is that when the spoon tip contacts the filter on the tube, the spoon is extended all of the way out. The final 3/8" to 1/2" of the spoon cannot carry any tobacco because it is solid and not hollow spoon like the rest of the spoon.
When I looked on the CTC parts list they show that the red-burgandy machine should have a different part no. than the blue newer Supermatic. Closer examination of these show that the real difference is that the newer spoon has a crimped spoon around a plastic plug, and the old one is made and machined to the metal pull-rod. Any Ideas will be appreciated. I have been into the MYO process for about a year, and have always liked it except for I have always preferred the 100mm cigarettes. It is unbelieveable that my small plastic Zig-Zag portable can fill these tubes better than one of these table-top machines but when I measured it;it is the same length as the Supermatics, but with the area "all-usuable." WHAT GIVES?
- Re: Supermatic Premier
- Posted by Dave L on Tuesday, 10-Aug-2004
"I was told that the new Supermatic had a larger chamber and a longer spoon in order to make these 100mm cigarettes."
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I think I started the rumor with bad wording. The chamber/spoon on the Premier Supermatic is _effectively_ bigger than the Supermatic II's (don't know about vintage Premier's). In the open position both the cutter and the spoon are further retracted.
I don't make 100's but I have been thinking about that retracted spoon. I don't think you want the spoon touching the filter when you make 100's. When you make 100's, filling the ends of the chamber is especially important. You want a plug of tobacco in front of the spoon.
I hadn't worried too much about the spoon difference when setting the machines for standard tubes because my Premier came with the 2-3/4" release and works fine. It may be that a slightly earlier release is appropriate when you make 100's. Maybe someone successfully making 100's can say when their's releases (80mm, 3"??).
- Re: Supermatic Premier
- Posted by Kev on Tuesday, 10-Aug-2004
I began stuffing with a cheap stuffer last December and after a few weeks I ordered a Supermatic. When it arrived I noticed the size selector was rather stiff and due to inexperience and probably a defective part, the selector/release broke within a few packs.
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Wanting to understand how this "thing" worked since the tray was the same size no matter the tube length, I began experimenting. By resting my left thumb partially on top of the shaft and mostly against the blue Supermatic top, I soon realized that light thumb pressure worked well as a release mechanism.
I've done this for so long I doubt I could use a normal Supermatic. Just slide the tube onto the shaft with your left hand and rest the thumb on the tube/shaft. It's second nature now and I don't realize the pressure needed. I can stuff a 100mm to the end or at most I have 1/8" not stuffed. I'd guess if you're having 3/8" not stuffed, the release is too tight and needs some type of adjustment. When mine stuffs the full tube, the spoon pushes the tube off the shaft.
- Supermatic 100's setting
- Posted by Tim Aydt on Tuesday, 10-Aug-2004
The difference between the vintage machines and the new blue's are in the tube settings label and that is all. CTC realized that hardly anyone smoked unfiltered cigarettes anymore and that the unfiltered setting would make OK 100's. So, without having to change anything but the label, they redesigned the machine.
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From my experience, the tobacco chamber is about 1/4 to 1/8 of an inch too short to fill a 100's tube completely and 1/4 to 1/8 of an inch too long when making king's, thereby overfilling them. The tobacco chamber size is a compromise.
I still like to smoke SYO 100's better than kings, even though there is not much difference.