Old Forum

Posted by Wazmo Nariz on Monday, 07-May-2007

An hour a day making smokes? How many packs you smokin' in a day??

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Posted by Smokin n Jokin on Tuesday, 08-May-2007

Probably a couple. It takes me about 30 seconds to make a stick with a supermatic II using Sagamore Virginia. Maybe not quite an hour but with time spent in preparation, picking out sticks and stems, messing with tubes that don't fit over the nozzle, cleaning up etc, all told it's probably close to it. The reason 99% of smokers don't SYO is because of the time it takes, and I'm about to fall into that category

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Posted by Wazmo Nariz on Tuesday, 08-May-2007

Counting prep time, it takes me about 10 minutes tops to make a pack with a Supermatic, using about any tobacco. Of course I don't fiddle aound with trimming off extraneous strands and stuff; I also 'tamp' the whole pack at once which saves some time.

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Posted by V. Michael Smith aka MC on Tuesday, 08-May-2007

I wish I could be honored to visit you, and watch you in action.
I can't do mine that fast.

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Posted by Wazmo Nariz on Tuesday, 08-May-2007

Years of practice. Plus the tubes I tend to buy have no problems slipping onto the nozzle (the thing has probably worn a bit after all this time, I'd imagine, which helps). Other than that, I can't explain it and there's nothing magical about the technique. It just doesn't seem to take that long....

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Posted by jim on Tuesday, 08-May-2007

i found on ebay an electric making cigarette machine paid 380.00 incld shipping.i make a carton of smokes in less than 2hrs with little clean-up in the end.some would say i'm not paying that kind of money for a machine but sit back and look at the time it takes to make a carton by hand and the money you save by not going to the store and buying.heres a little tip to help pay for the machine start making smokes for some friends or neighbors and the price just got cheaper for you..

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Posted by Kerry on Tuesday, 08-May-2007

I make a pack of smokes in 5 to 7 minutes with my Supermatic.

That's about 50 to 70 minutes per carton if I wanted to make that many at a time.

If I am watching TV or doing something else while stuffing, it might take me 10 minutes per pack, but that is still quite a bit less than 2 hours and it didn't cost me $380 and I have 2 machines!

You didn't say you were selling the smokes to your friends, but it seems to be implied. That's all we need to get the fed and state folks on our butts real quick.

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Optimizing production

Posted by jim on Wednesday, 09-May-2007

i didn't say i was selling. and it only takes me 2-3min to make a pack.the thing about the machine is it don't like really moist tobacco.you have to let it sit for a bit thats why i said it can take up too 2hrs per carton.

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Re: Electric Injectors: Posted by mike c on Wednesday, 09-May-2007
well that's not so bad
why couldn't the "reps" just tell us that.....well Bebop, looks like you are in luck
all the machines seem to need the tobacco to be dried.
I did see on another forum, someone complaining about "hard spots" appearing in their finished sticks...if this ever happens to you, please report it honestly
cheers
m
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Posted by Warren on Wednesday, 09-May-2007

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As Wazmo illustrated, you need to do better division of labor, like a factory production line so that all subtasks of the same kind are done together, separately from other subtasks. Load all tobacco needed into a tray (I made one the day I got the machine, using a cardboard box & scotch tape) and set a pile of tubes next to the nozzle to reduce the travel of your left arm. Your left hand grabs the tube and puts it onto the nozzle, while the right hand shovels the tobacco into the chamber (that side needs no looking, you simply overflow the chamber and gently press it down, depending on the preferred firmness of the sticks).

Then you crank them quickly, with right hand shoveling in the tobacco into the chamber and pulling the lever, left hand mounting tubes onto the nozzle, without spending any time on the filled tubes which will mostly drop off on the side by themselves. To reduce amount of later thumping, the left hand can also push a bit the tube in, onto the nozzle, to pack the tobacco at the end of the stroke, right before the spoon is withdrawn. You can crank faster if you remove the lever return spring.

After the tobacco is gone, you take the entire batch of filled tubes and thump them all together, either by hand or even quicker using a little box (e.g. an empty box from premades) or a paper towels tube. By storing them filters down into a plastic box, you can even thump them by slamming the box itself onto a semi-soft surface (to soften the noise). Or you can glue a cloth noise pad onto the bottom of the box and then slam the box on anything.

To avoid cleanup for every batch, you set up the workspace on a large lunch tray and take off the rubber mat from the unit. All scraps end up on the tray which you can shake out into the trash every week or two. To dampen the cranking noise you lay out paper towels over the tray (which makes it even quieter than rubber mat and speeds up the periodic cleanups).

After the daily batch (of 5-7 minutes, which can overlap with conversation, TV, radio,...), you simply take the tray with the machine, tobacco can and tubes inside, put it away on a shelf and the desk workspace is already tidy, needing no further attention. For tobacco freshness and variety, I prefer to make them 2-3 times per day, usually while reading on the computer.

I use nonfiltered tubes, which reduces number of sticks you need for the same dose of tobacco smoke, restores the ratios of magical ingredients [link] [link] in the smoke to those honed over the eight millennia of tobacco cultivation and eliminates the non-biodegradable fibers you inhale [link] . The nonfiltered tubes require extra steps in the above procedure, a) of giving a quick puff and a sqeeze to the end of flattened tube before insertion onto the nozzle and b) packing excess tobacco on one end (if you push in the stick onto the nozzle at the end of a stroke, you get only one end to pack) instead of thumping (I use a wooden chopstick and pack the whole batch of sticks together at the very end). While that takes slightly more time per tube, you will smoke 30-40 percent fewer nonfiltered cigarettes for the same beneficial effects, hence the net result is further time saving with nonfiltered tubes (they are also half the cost of filtered tubes and you spend much less on tobacco). Even without the time & money savings on the nonfiltered tubes, for the health benefits alone it is worth snipping the filters off before smoking them.

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Re: Optimizing production: Posted by Smokin n Jokin on Thursday, 10-May-2007
Thanks for the tips Warren, I may try making a tray or some kind of a hopper for my Excel, both of my supermatic II's seem to leave 1/4 to 3/8 of an inch of tobacco hanging out of the end of the stick, my Excel doesn't. That would eliminate the trimming. I like my sticks stuffed firm and use Sagamore virginia and I keep it pretty moist, being a coarse cut like it is that makes it kinda springy and most of my time is spent stuffing it in the chamber.
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Posted by Dano on Sunday, 13-May-2007

Do the math... 2 a minute makes a pack in 10 minutes.
It takes you 10 minutes to get in your car to drive to the store and back to buy a pack.

Your post makes absolutely NO sense.

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Posted by Smokin n Jokin on Sunday, 13-May-2007

It's not just about time, it's about a lot of things, including money and quality of the end product. You do the math and see if you can figure out why premade cigarettes are a multi billion dollar industry and SYO or RYO is a very small niche market.

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Posted by Pants on Sunday, 13-May-2007

The biggest reason there are more premade smokers than myo/ryo smokers is that many people are willing to settle for mediocrity if the alternative means a little extra work. :-)

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Posted by smokin n Jokin on Sunday, 13-May-2007

If that were the case, which it isn't, then people making cigarettes out of bulk SYO tobacco would be a billion dollar industry and the premade cigarette industry would dry up.

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Solving two problems at once

Posted by Dave L on Monday, 14-May-2007

I think he was saying that folks aren't willing to spend the time on MYO even if it means, which it can :-), a higher quality smoke.

MYO has a low class image cause its cheap. If you buy super premium tobacco and count your time as money, the cost equation is probably pretty balanced.

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Re: Electric Injectors: Posted by mike c on Monday, 14-May-2007
and besides, there's just no class in smoking pre-mades.
where's the rebellion in that??
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Re: Electric Injectors: Posted by Dave L on Tuesday, 08-May-2007
The Easy Roller is no longer made and the Quick Injector appears to be a scam. The link at the top of the Quick Roller page (which includes good recent discussions by owners/users) is to the English version of the site. When you go to their store, you have to look for the flags (down in the left column) to switch to the English version.
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Posted by Hua Kul on Monday, 07-May-2007

Problem 1: SHAKE.
Problem 2: FILTER GAP.

What I've been doing is to drop a couple of pinches of shake into the tube before I place it on the machine. This seems to help prevent an empty gap in front of the filter and it uses up the shake.

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Posted by Kerry on Tuesday, 08-May-2007

Sounds like a lot more trouble than using quality tobacco, avoiding over handling the tobacco and paying close attention to the moisture level.

Maybe it's just me though.

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Posted by Hua Kul on Wednesday, 09-May-2007

I think you're right on two out of three. I am using quality tobaccos, mainly D&R brands, but I have definitely noticed the humidity issue more lately now that warmer weather has arrived here. I have to find the right balance because I absolutely detest not being able to fill the tube completely.

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Posted by Ralph on Saturday, 12-May-2007

Replace or sharpen your cutter. If that doesn't work, buy a new machine.

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Posted by Dave L on Saturday, 12-May-2007

If the machine is clean/gunk free and the gripper is gripping well/releasing properly, filter end voids are the result of using too moist and/or too much tobacco. The cutter, aside from the primary issue of gunk buildup on the bottom of it, is a secondary and minor consideration.

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Posted by Ralph on Sunday, 13-May-2007

I don't agree. When I get gaps at the filter, I can see the cutter get hung up and consistently drag tobacco from right to left as I crank. A new cutter seems to fix the problem although I had to junk my last Excel as a near total rebuild didn't even fix the problem.

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Posted by Wazmo Nariz on Sunday, 13-May-2007

Maybe I missed something...the cutter doesn't travel left to right (or right to left), so how is it dragging tobacco right to left?

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Re: Solving two problems at once: Posted by Ralph on Sunday, 20-May-2007
Hi Wazmo,
As you crank, the tobacco goes from right to left as it fills the tube. A dull cutter has historically caused my filter gaps until the machine becomes unusable. As Dave points out, the worn down gripper might be my issue long term.
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Posted by Dave L on Monday, 14-May-2007

Fist of all, 'cutter' is a bit of a misnomer because it doesn't work like any 'real' cutters (scissors, paper cutter, shear, etc.). There will always be a 'pinch and tear' aspect.

With a clean machine, the closed cutter to housing gap is typically .002" on the Supermatic and .004" on the Top-O-Matic. Gunk buildup on the bottom of the cutter/top of the chamber can reduce those to a negative number (i.e. binding/jambing).

Using an adjustable cutter I have found that, in this application (not being a true cutter with two sharpened edges sliding together at an angle), a slight clearance works better than no clearance. The bigger clearance on the TOM seems to cut just as well as the tighter fitting Supermatic. The reason folks like the TOM is because its like the AK-47 (VS the M-16/Supermatic, hope I got that right), its less likely to jam/bind due to gunk buildup.

Because the cutter, even when razor sharp (an impossibility), cannot cut all the tobacco strands (because of the poor mating surfaces etc.), its better to allow a bit of room for the inevitable bit of tobacco that will get pinched/caught between the 'cutter' and chamber top.

The recommended practice is to overfill (not over pack) the chamber, to fill the slot to the top of the machine or a bit more. I don't know what the theoretical limits are but, it would take a pretty big clearance (cutter to chamber) for the cutter to be ineffective at pinching off the excess tobacco - before you'll see tobacco sliding, from right to left, as the spoon is pushing out the plug of tobacco.

While a sharper cutter will reduce 'pinch and tear' (and ease the action a bit), it has no direct connection to filter end voids (I doesn't change the load on the gripper). A sharper cutter might help if the cutter was ineffective at pinching off the excess tobacco but, in that case, I'd think that jambing would more likely be the complaint.

The Excel has different considerations. The Excel cutter, chamber, nozzle and gripper are all plastic instead of metal (Matics). Plastic is both slicker and less durable than metal. There are places where using plastic is a poor choice of material.

While I can see how the slicker material and rounding/wear on the cutter and mating chamber edge (on the Excel) could cause cut/pinch/tear related issues, my problems were with the gripper. Trying to hold onto thin paper (tubes), with two pieces of slick plastic, takes a lot of pressure (why the spring tension on the Excel gripper is so high) and is prone to having issues. Over time/usage the plastic mating surfaces on the Excel wear and polish, resulting in a weakened grip. Tubes start getting released prematurely causing filter end voids. I no longer use an Excel but Scott's gripper mod seems like a good solution.

Yikes. This is one reason I don't post as much, replies get involved/time consuming. Hope it makes sense.

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Posted by Hua Kul on Monday, 14-May-2007

I utilized Scott's modification but in a much simpler way that is working very well. I just cleaned the gripper face and super glued a piece of balloon to it. It has been working very well for about a month now and I make about 15-18 packs per week. It actually works too well. If I don't stop pulling in time I rip a notch of paper out of the end of king size tubes. I think I would like to modify this machine to just work with king size so if someone can direct me to information about how to do that (shorten the spoon?) I would be grateful. It's a blue Excel.

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Posted by Dave L on Tuesday, 15-May-2007

The Excel has a shorter chamber than the Matics and was designed for king size. The tube tearing is, in part, because you didn't take the thickness of the rubber you added off of the gripper face (the longer gripper effectively delays the tube release). The fixed plastic release could also be worn. The filterless mod would probably make the release timing too early but you might be able to come up with something similar.

Experimenting with reduced spring tension is also a possibility. The rubber face makes the gripper much more positive, maybe a tad too much. By comparison the spring tension on the Matics is relatively light (maybe a tad to light) and allows a bit of slip (by controlling the slip, via adjustable spring tension and a forgiving gripper, it is possible to do away with the release altogether). The Matics lighter spring tension is a bit more forgiving of variations in volume and moisture, something a 100% positive grip (rubber face combined with the tight spring tension that was needed for plastic to work as a gripper, i.e. your Excel) and fixed release timing doesn't provide. Its a balancing act. Ideally it would be possible to make fine adjustments to both release timing and spring tension.

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rip off iamcheapest.com

Posted by scott johnson on Tuesday, 15-May-2007

Shortening the spoon helped me with the tube tearing problem. I think I removed about 1.5mm from the length. Now another thing is that I use tubes with 17 and 20 mm filters and not Premiers 15mm filters. That will also make a difference in when the spoon hits the filter.

SJ

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Re: Solving two problems at once: Posted by Dave L on Tuesday, 15-May-2007
Whoops, forgot about that very important point, thanks. When using tubes with a filter longer than 15mm, on the Excel or any of the Matics, shortening the spoon is a real good idea, mandatory in some cases.

When the spoon is longer than the inside length of the tube, it pushes against the filter which adds load on the gripper (push on filter = pull on gripper). If the spoon pushes too hard on the filter, the tube will tear. There is no reason for the spoon to be long enough to touch the filter. Only with a spoon that falls short of the filter, can you eliminate tobacco protrusion (less tobacco and/or lengthwise compression).

The stock spoon on the Excel and all the Matics can and should be shorter, 65mm (20mm filter might touch, but should be fine) at the most, to work with all standard tubes.
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Re: Solving two problems at once: Posted by Ralph on Sunday, 20-May-2007
Thanks for spending the time Dave. Every bit of advice helps. I'll examine the gripper issue more closely when my current Excel slips into substandard production. I still maintain that a sharp cutter lessens the occurance of filter gaps. I say this only by experience. If I can make the gripper mod, that will save me $25.
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Re: Solving two problems at once: Posted by zzz on Friday, 03-Aug-2007
The problem IS the Excel. Get a Top and be finished with it.
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Posted by bebop on Sunday, 06-May-2007

I had been saving for a while to get an electric injector machine. I had found this site, iamcheapest.com that sells a quick injector machine for $129 shipping included. I called them and talked to some guy who said that i would get the machine in two to three weeks top. I bought it on April 10th, but never recieved any confirmation letter from the company. I started calling them and found out thier phone just hangs up when you call, emails go unanswered. I filed a claim last week with paypal and as of now, we still havn't got a response. I don't believe i will get the machine or my money back at this point.

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Posted by michael coleman on Sunday, 06-May-2007

Bebop!
where have YOU been!!!!
sadly, there has been discussion of the place you ordered from right here....I am thinking it would still be on here
it was decided that this place had to be an evil sham.
I am surprised you apparently missed that.
Anyway, life has mud, don't worry, report them to BBB and whatever else creative you can think of
that place needs to go DOWN.

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Posted by Dave L on Sunday, 06-May-2007

The previous thread.

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Posted by bebop on Monday, 07-May-2007

Thanks for the link dave. The name they use under paypal now is white teeth. Sounds like thier site had more information on the machine back then,than it does now. What is strange is i did a google search on them before i bought the machine and came up with nothing but advertisments for them. Seems if they are scam site, something would have showed up. I did look under the machines thread, but didn't see any heading for quick injector and just figured it was something new. I wish now i had posted and asked before i bought it. I should have known that someone here would have had this information.

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Re: rip off iamcheapest.com: Posted by Wazmo Nariz on Monday, 07-May-2007
Seems that Go Daddy, their hosting company, has taken their web site down and seems to want to hear from the owners ASAP.
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Re: rip off iamcheapest.com: Posted by Dave L on Monday, 07-May-2007
Using the site search for 'iamcheapest' or 'quick injector' returns both threads. While using Google to search this site brings up neither thread, an Internet wide search for 'iamcheapest' is returning a number of negative things.

Its interesting that they've been able to setup a new PayPal account (previous one apparently frozen) and, at least temporarily, re-activate their domain (the same 'site unavailable' message was there at the time of the last thread).
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Posted by beeman on Sunday, 06-May-2007

Bebop, we too were foolish and ordered a machine from these people. We had the same exact thing happen to us. We too filed a claim almost two weeks ago. We got a response from Paypal, yesterday, in our favor. Luckily, we will be getting our refund. I hope you get as lucky. Just wanted you to know we had the same scenario, that you weren't alone and paypal should be contacting you.

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Posted by bebop on Sunday, 06-May-2007

Hey, that's great news! I hope paypal decides in our favor also. Hi Mike, how have you been. I still check the boards pretty often still, but must have missed that one. Just want to make sure no one else gets ripped off by this company.

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