Posts from Jul 2006 to Jan 2007

Posted by scott johnson on Wednesday, 10-Jan-2007

It depends on how moist the tobacco is. most of the time i can use most tobaccos right out of the bag. remember: the machine will do the compression, so don't overload the chamber.

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Posted by Captain U-96 aka Mike on Sunday, 14-Jan-2007

To add to what Scott has said; be sure to read the instructions carefully. Load each end first, don't pack the tobacco--then fill in the middle. One tip I'll offer is never force the the machine--if it won't go back off! Then, unload it, clear it and start again. Mike

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Posted by Keith on Sunday, 14-Jan-2007

I do put tobacco in the ends first then the middle. I don't pack it down, just take my fingers a press down a little. But how can I tell if I'm using excessive force to crank the machine? What's easy for you might seem hard for me and vice versa.

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Posted by mike c on Sunday, 14-Jan-2007

feel a bit weird jumping in since I only so recently learned this stuff myself....sounds like you got everything just perfect.....the machine will "work with you"...basically...when it's wrong...YOU'LL KNOW!!! the crank handle will not move unless you try to force it...which is the golden rule to NEVER NEVER do.....when it happens, relax, stop, back off, get a toothpook or similar non-metallic object and gently clean out the tobacco and start again....you'll soon get a feel of just looking at the tobacco cut, moisture content, etc. and it becomes almost second nature...toss some in, spread it to the ends, even it out, make a smoke,,,,,you got it! I'm surprised I haven't seen Kerry fielding these questions

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Posted by scott johnson on Sunday, 14-Jan-2007

If i happen to overload the machine and it jams, i have a soda straw that has been cut at a 45 degree angle. I stick it in thru the nozzle and rotate it to work the tobacco back over into the chamber. YMMV

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Soda straw Re: Any tips for new Premier user?: Posted by Kerry on Sunday, 14-Jan-2007
Good tip! Never thought of that one. Just went to the kitchen and got a straw to try it. Other than having a little trouble getting it past the spoon, looks like it will work quite well. That is unless you have really packed the tobacco very hard before it jams. ;o)

In any case, next time I have a jam I will try it. Might be a few months though.
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Too Much Focus On BIG Machines!

Posted by Keith on Monday, 15-Jan-2007

After making a batch of smokes I had some smaller pieces of tobacco left on my tray and decided to stuff 1 more cig. When I pulled the crank, it felt really solid, no give at all. I guess that is the point where you are supposed to stop applying pressure and clean out the tobacco. I took a straw and dug the tobacco out and threw it away. At least now I know what it feels like when something isn't right.

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Re: Any tips for new Premier user?: Posted by Matt on Monday, 15-Jan-2007
Now that you know, doesn't it feel great to not waste your time with shake? I know it's an instinct to be frugal and not waste tobacco, but shake just makes for a raunchy tasting smoke. I know others will disagree, but c'mon, you've already saved a bundle, why not just throw that shake out and move on to the next bag/can?
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injecting shake/ size settings: Posted by mike c on Tuesday, 09-Jan-2007
as Kerry taught us (or me anyway)...shake can absolutely be used in the machines...you just have to play "technician".
only tiny tiny bits if that's all your using and you may have to add some to the tip afterwards....but more importantly, if you just learn to reduce the amount of tobacco you are using you can carefully blend it in with perfect results. *~~subject change~~*
I have found that the 100mm setting on the Supermatics is probably best for king-size, since after tamps they come out as good as Mike Sr.'s without the snipped perfection. If I use King-size, sometimes post-tamp, the 'baccy goes down in the tube slightly further than flush (only slightly, mind you)...if anyone is better/smarter than this...please teach!!!!
mike c
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Posted by Dano on Monday, 08-Jan-2007

I see all this babble about the Supermatic, UltaMatic, Mama FuFu Matic, Electric gee wished they actually worked machines with price tags from $35 to $500 dollars.

I once used a Supermatic (it was great) but I think we should be telling the newbies to MYO that the lowly $5 hand injector is ulitmately the best option.

Big machines are for Newbies, Women and the handicaped.
I don't say that in a cynical fashion. For those groups the big machine is exactly what is needed to have a good MYO experience.

However most people will or should find that spending money on big machines that are destined to shake apart (ie: 3 months down the road instead of making a cig they need to get a wrench to tighten up their big machine before they can even roll a cig ) to be really bad economics!

So here's the real scoop. Newbies get a Supermatic and get into MYO. You'll be a happy clam for the first 3 months and spend the next 9 being a mechanic. (Kinda sucks when you want a smoke and you gotta go get a wrench first :)

Bottom line is.. go get yourself a Premier hand injector. (The old blue one for about $10) It will never shake apart and 10 years from now it will be just like new. You'll make cigs just as fast as with a 'big machine', don't let anyone kid you otherwise.

When someone actually comes out with an electric/automatic cig machine that 'works'... i'll be the first on on it, but that animal just doesn't exist yet.

Stay Frosty!
Dano

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Too Much Focus On BIG Machines!

Posted by Kerry on Monday, 08-Jan-2007

Dano, you have to remember that many of us "big machine" users started out with the handhelds. Their performance is why we moved on to the better machines, e.g. Supermatic, etc.

You keep saying your machine "shook itself apart". Well, it is a machine and not alive, so I would guess that you shook it apart. There is a learning curve in using any of the syo machines including the handhelds. I would guess that you broke your machine during that learning curve, Although it is slightly possible that you simply got a lemon, I would put my money on "operator error" as the cause of your broken machine.

Supermatics and the like are for everyone who wants a more consistent stick and doesn't want to go through all the gyrations required by the handhelds, including buying new ones when they break... and they do break and quite often if you like a tightly packed smoke. My first Supermatic is still working fine after over 2 years. Only have had to replace to screws/nuts for the H-link. The other one is still in the box waiting as a backup.

Bottom line is, most people will find the Supermatic (or similar machine) will produce better quality sticks faster than any handheld. It is good to have a handheld as a traveler and backup, but not as the main machine.

To each his own, but I am absolutely certain and most people will find the the Supermatic and clones more satisfying as their syo machine. Not many will stick with a handheld after they learn to keep their tobacco hydrated properly and use a "big machine".

Chill!

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Posted by Dano on Tuesday, 09-Jan-2007

Come onnnnn... get off the propaganda machine :) You sound like you're on CTC's payroll! And before I respond further let me just state that I think the big machines are great and have their place, so don't brand me a BMaphobe! :)

If we get into our 'Way Back' machines i'm sure it would look something like this, 1965 grab a hand held injector for pot and cigs, early 70's grab one of those Laramie stuffers and find only Bugler & Top Tobbaco and only Laramie tubes (which sucked all around)then time machine forward to about 1995 or so when taxes started pissing us off so badly that a change had to be made. Naturally, having half heartedly played with the hand held and the Laramie a better solution was desperately needed. Hence the purchase of a Supermatic. It was heavenly!

Yes, there's a learning curve. It's not rocket science, it's don't over stuff the hopper :) Every newbie will commit this sin, the difference is with a Big Machine you are paying a price, that price is you are stripping the gears. Newbies are also inclined to 'Force' the crank which only adds to the machines eventual failure. It's a natural reaction.

AND! I totally disagree with your statment "Supermatics and the like are for everyone who wants a more consistent stick and doesn't want to go through all the gyrations required by the handhelds, including buying new ones when they break"

A: A Supermatic doesn't make a better stick than a Premier hand held injector.

B: The Gyrations are MUCH less with a Hand Held.

C: The ONLY way you're going to BREAK a hand held is if you actually STEP on it! The supermatic by contrast will fall apart simply by overstuffing the hopper.

[snipped]

"My first Supermatic is still working fine after over 2 years. Only have had to replace two screws/nuts for the H-link. The other one is still in the box waiting as a backup."

I have to ask, did you stop smoking while you sent out for the screws and nuts? If you are SO confident that your 'Big Machine' is the answer, why do you have a back up? That's over $100 dollars invested in machines alone?!!

Ok people, here's the real deal on machines.
IF you're a Newbie to MYO get a Supermatic (or comparable clone). They work great out of the box and you're going to save a lot of money and hassel. You're going to be happy as a clam for the first 3 to 6 months. THEN.... your big machine is going to pay the price for your sins! The SIN of over stuffing and forcing the crank. You will be looking for a pair of pliers just to make a cig. and there's nothing that will piss a person off more than wanting a cig and not getting it because their $50 machine needs all its screws and bolts tightened and parts cleaned! That's the bottom line!

Women and handicapped people may have, for different reasons an attraction to the big machines and that's ok, but NO self respecting man is going to shell out $100 dollars to have a Big Machine in reserve after he's found out that he has to Buy Parts to fix the first one when a simple $5 machine, that is virtually indestructable, works just as well!

[snipped]

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Too Much Focus On BIG Machines!

Posted by Wazmo Nariz on Tuesday, 09-Jan-2007

Indestructible? Heck, The first and only Premier handheld I ever bought broke the first time I used it...slid the top back and it kept on going, and I'm certainly not Superman. A fluke, maybe, but no way will a handheld ever beat the big 'uns for speed.

For the basic, most simplistic and consistent stick around, if that's your goal, nothing beats a pack of Rizla, a box of Swan filter tips and a hand-roller for those who can't roll au natural. :-)

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Posted by Dano on Tuesday, 09-Jan-2007

Cute!

And 45 minutes later you have 1/2 a pack of cigs.

[snipped]

A hand held will make perfect cigs just as fast if not faster than a $50 machine each and every time.

[snipped]

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Re: Too Much Focus On BIG Machines!: Posted by Wazmo Nariz on Tuesday, 09-Jan-2007
You know, I just timed myself hand-rolling a pack (20) of London Export using papers and filters with a hand roller...11 minutes taking my time. Sorry to beat your time so handily....
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Posted by Dave L on Tuesday, 09-Jan-2007

A: Both tools are capable of making a quality smoke.

B: The machines are simpler to learn/use and are more efficient to operate (fill and crank VS measure, fill, tamp, close, slide right, slide left and open). Given users with equal experience, the machines will be faster (the limits of potential for efficiency of motion dictates this)

C: In at least four years of stuffing I haven't broken a single part. For me the relatively expensive (compared to handhelds, cheap compared to premades) initial investment (recouped by making 2-3 cartons) and a bit of maintenance (after 3-6 months the only sin is to not take care of your investment, i.e. clean your machine) for a machine that should last a lifetime (I'll pay $15 for any machine that has 'fallen apart'/become worthless or give you back better than new for the cost of new), is well worth it.

P.S. I snipped none of your content, only the worst of the flaming.

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Re: Too Much Focus On BIG Machines!: Posted by Dave L on Tuesday, 09-Jan-2007
P.P.S. The reason there's so much about machines on this site is because that is what I use. Anyone is welcome to submit articles on handhelds. I'll make space for any informative and useful articles, pictures, etc. in the content areas of this site. I'll even give it a category of its own when there's enough content to merit it.
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Re: Too Much Focus On BIG Machines!: Posted by Kerry on Tuesday, 09-Jan-2007
Thanks Dave for saying, much clearer I think, what I was trying to get at.

To say that a handheld is simpler in motion/activities required by the user compared to the "machines" is simply wrong.

The machines are more consistent (IMHO and experience) and faster for most users in making quality sticks. I still have handhelds (and broke several) and some rollers and even a couple of antique rollers. Heck, I even use them once in a while. I certainly have enough hand-rolling papers! ;)

As for the handheld stuffers, I'll never go back to one as my main stuffer.
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Posted by Dano on Wednesday, 10-Jan-2007

Dear Dave;

A: Both a hand held and crank machine make perfect cigs. I agree with you.

B: When you say 'Machines' I assume you mean a Crank Machine, and go on to say they are simpler to learn/use.

I dissagree with you on this. I do agree that a crank machine should be a Newbies entry point to MYO, but only because the Crank Machine's size offers a degree of emotional support. By that I mean, the typical person that is thinking about moving from smoking Marlboro's (etc.) to actually making thier own cigs NEEDS to THINK & FEEL the weight of what they precieve to be a viable alternative to buying a pac at the local shop. They need to FEEL the weight of a Crank Machine and believe it will make smokes as good or better than a Pack From The Store with no hassel. The Big Machines take them to that place.

Dave, it's your board, and naturally you can say what ever you want to. But you know as well as I do that the BIG machines are money loosers. The only reason to tell someone to use a Crank Machine is that they are new to MYO and you should be telling people that when their Crank Machine starts shaking itself apart... that they are READY to move over to a $5 plastic machine that will make cigs just as fast, just as good.

There's a place for both machines however I don't think high priced crank machines should be promoted as 'The Machine To Have'.

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Posted by Captain U-96 aka Mike on Wednesday, 10-Jan-2007

I have to disagree with your philosophy. First off, I started making my own smokes with a hand roller back around 1991, and I used several of them, because they were cheap! I wore out many of these little wonders. Then, I got my hands on a little blue colored Zig Zag hand injector. I liked it so well I bought several of them to be sure I had a spare, and to give to friends. I still have one left that's well worn. These machines came with an extra nipple even! But, I grew tired of making smokes with these machines, and I bought a Supermatic! I've been using the Big Machines ever since; with the exception of the occasional hand rolled smoke. I've never had a Supermatic that shook apart; I screwed the first one I owned up, because of my negligence to follow instructions! I probably screwed up the second one too, but it was me--not the machine's fault--if only machines could talk! Supermatics, Topomatics, Ultimatics, got nothing to do with a sense of well--being over the Big Tobacco Companies--it has to do with Evolution! Can you see people going back to Flint Lock Muzzleloaders, and casting aside their cartridge guns? No! The only thing I can agree with you on is that it is a personal choice what machine a person chooses to use--nothing else! Mike

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Re: Too Much Focus On BIG Machines!: Posted by scott johnson on Wednesday, 10-Jan-2007
I agree with Mike. I've used the handhelds and have 2 here for backups. But, for making my daily smokes, I'll use my old red supermatic. It looks like it's worn out, but it cranks out one after another. All I do is either blow or vacuum out the dust once a week. I took it apart and lubricated what needed done with a q-tip and Vaseline. This thing could be 10 years old, or older, it works great.

I made smokes for months with hand injectors. I wouldn't go back to using one daily unless it was made entirely out of metal. Plastics will only do so much.

As far as a machine shaking apart, I can only think that yours must have just been a lemon. Mine has some wear on it, but it's still smooth operating.

I believe you had one bad experience with a machine and have stereotyped all big machines.

Everyone is entitled to their opinions on this board. Mr. Lers is very open to discussion just as the rest of us are.

Personally, I've had some very bad experiences with tubes and tobaccos that others here smoke daily. I gave those products a second try and found that I was just victim of a bad production run.

Please keep an open mind.

SJ
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Posted by mike c on Wednesday, 10-Jan-2007

I'm no longer well-to-do. but 30-50 dollers spent on occasional entire-replacements. along,with the parts orders keepin' 'em kicikin' in-between sounds alomst a litte fun, ..PS...honest question, does you Premier handhed fill the tubes/shells 100 percent to filter and 100 percent
to flush with open tube end....or is't sometimrs twisted ends and undefils...plesse impart me with knoeledege!!!!!

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Posted by Dano on Thursday, 11-Jan-2007

You so funny, you want some 'knoeledge'? :)

Ok, let me be specific. I'm not saying any hand held will be the equal to a big machine. As a matter of fact, most hand helds i've tried are good only for a few cigs on the fly, not for a serious 'myo' person to try to make a pac everyday with. I have a bunch of hand helds left over from birthdays, pool partys & christmas's past. For different reasons, they all pretty much suck, except one.

The One I'm Talking About Is Here...
[link]

Scroll down to the end of the page where all the Premier Injectors are. I'm talking about the hand held one titled 'Premier Injector' at the left of the second row. (notice it says supermatic under Premier :)

That particular hand held will make cigs just as fast and just as good as the 2 Supermatic crank machines on the page and a hell of a lot faster than the Excel Delux.

I'll also mention that the hand held i'm talking about makes the new Rizla Cig Size Tubes with no problem so you don't need to buy the Rizla injector just for those tubes.

So what i'm saying is, IF you use the particular hand injector i'm talking about you will make quality cigs just as fast, just as good as a big machine. IF you try to use any other type of hand injector you're wasting your time.

I 'can' make a pack in under 5 minutes but that's only in a challange. It take 6 or 7 minutes to normally make a pac.

So that's my 'tip' to newbies. Get a big machine, learn how much tobacco to put in the hopper, and get comfortable with making cigs. When your big machine eventually shakes itself loose don't spend another $50 dollars, just get the machine i'm talking about above and go on your merry way.

Ultamitely it's all about putting the right amount of tobacco in the hopper.

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Posted by Captain U-96 aka Mike on Thursday, 11-Jan-2007

Thanks for the info. If I happen to run into anyone thinking about MYO, I'll refer them to the Premier hand held; since you have given it such a great rating. I'm serious! It's hard to suggest a hand-held to someone! Many people have shied away from MYO because of a bad experience with a hand-held--not giving any other machine a chance. Mike

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Posted by Dano on Tuesday, 16-Jan-2007

You're welcome for the info. The only reason I brought the subject up was because there seems to be a bias against hand held's.

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Re: Too Much Focus On BIG Machines!: Posted by mike c on Tuesday, 16-Jan-2007
I noticed that myself, but decided to be divided and conquered...
I feel funny as I did all that hype over hand-helds and now they just sit
the site won
mc
ps-what is "stay frosty"? I certainly hate heat
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Re: Too Much Focus On BIG Machines!: Posted by mike c on Tuesday, 09-Jan-2007
ah but I don't want to abandon my new toys.....I just sit and look at them (no TV remember) and I get joy!!!!
but if I must, wanna have a Premier HH showdown against my Maiker 100mm??? (it's not perfect, I get tinsie paper tears on occcasion) but it DOES THE JOB.....and if you'd like to play Rizla Cig size I'm pretty sharp with my De Luxe (again, not perfect, tight fit) but the sticks! the sticks!!! well, I better go take some meds...this cold finds me woozy
peace, and I mean it...Aquarian
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Posted by Paul on Tuesday, 09-Jan-2007

    I agree there seems to be a great deal of activity written about the bigger machines. Well, Dano like Kerri said, "to each his own". I've read some posts here that describe their myo never going beyond a handheld. I work with people that have never gone beyond a handheld. One guy I know uses a handheld and uses pipe tobacco for he and his wife's smokes. I had another friend over my house who had started me on the myo. He rolls his own and even puts a filter in. He never knew there was a stuffing machine. For myself. I have several rolling machines a handheld and a supermatic II. That works for me. Besides cleaning and careful oiling I've done nothing to my crank machine in the last two years.
    Kerry the moisture content of tobacco and the amount stuffed into the tube creates a different smoke. Wouldn't you agree. To each his own.

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Posted by Dano on Tuesday, 09-Jan-2007

I agree with you 100%. To each their own. What I object to is the idea that somehow BIG Machines are superior in quality to a hand held machine. Everybody that's been in this scene for any time at all knows that is just simply a load of BS.

Quite frankly, I have to ask, why is it that this fourm is consistently trying to mask the truth from new users to MYO and making wild claims like a big machine is better and making newbies THINK that the only confortable option is to spend $50 dollars for a machine, that everyone here knows, will shake itself apart by the end of the year of use?!

[snipped]

It's just this simple, Big Machines are like Training Bra's, you grow out of them.

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Posted by Wazmo Nariz on Tuesday, 09-Jan-2007

:-) Would that make handhelds kinda like a water gun? Eventually you get yourself a real sidearm....

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Posted by Dano on Tuesday, 09-Jan-2007

Posted by Wazmo Nariz on Tuesday, 09-Jan-2007
:-) Would that make handhelds kinda like a water gun? Eventually you get yourself a real sidearm..Too Much Focus On BIG Machines!

More like you thought you got a good deal from the Mexican Army only to end up with a bunch of 3'rd world crap. How many Big Machines are made in the U.S.A.? NONE! Third World Crap! Get Over It! :)

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Re: Too Much Focus On BIG Machines!: Posted by Wazmo Nariz on Tuesday, 09-Jan-2007
I don't care if they're made on Mars by slave labour to tell you the truth. And I got over hand-held long ago. :-)
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Posted by Tim Aydt on Thursday, 11-Jan-2007

I find your analogy for newbies flawed.

Ten years ago when I was really a newbie to SYO, I bought a Premier hand injector, a can of tobacco, and a box of tubes. After two weeks of aggravation, I threw it all away and went back to pre-mades. I suspect that I am not the only one who has done this, especially since I have talked to several people who have shared similar experiences. Unfortunately, nearly all of them were so irritated by the hand injectors that they are completely spoiled on SYO. If they had been exposed to the ease of injecting with a Supermatic, maybe they might have continued to make their own.

It wasn't until, just three years ago, a new friend let me try their Supermatic and I was sold on SYO. If you want the full story, look for the earliest posts on this site. I had some problems with my machine and still do occasionally, but nothing like the problems I had with a hand-held.

Another thing, even if you had to buy a new machine every three months, you would still be saving tons of cash.

Lastly, I am glad that you have found hand-stuffing so easy, but I feel that you are one of the rare ones.

p.s. If I sound like a spokesman for CTC, maybe it's because I am using the same Supermatic that I bought 3 1/2 years ago and have only had minor problems with it since. I own four other machines, but when I make my smokes I always grab big blue.

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Which machine to buy?

Posted by Major Havoc on Thursday, 11-Jan-2007

Tim Aydt says: "Another thing, even if you had to buy a new machine every three months, you would still be saving tons of cash."

Well put, I was going to say the same thing...

I could buy a brand new Supermatic every three months and still be WAY ahead of the game, money-wise.

A Supermatic costs less than a carton of Marlboros up here in Michigan, so go figure the numbers.

You can ride it hard and put it up wet... it just doesn't matter.. cuz if it breaks, you can spend the time and hassle messing around with ordering parts and wrenching, or you can just go and buy a new horse and start fresh!

You guys and gals gotta look at the BIG picture... LOL

'nuff said!

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Re: Too Much Focus On BIG Machines!: Posted by scott johnson on Friday, 12-Jan-2007
Well, I like to tinker, so I'll do the parts deal and be happy.
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Posted by Keith on Friday, 05-Jan-2007

I was shown the deal on the Supermatic II at Smokers Warehouse and am considering buying it. But would I be better off buying the Blue Premier Supermatic?

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Re: Which machine to buy?

Posted by mike c on Friday, 05-Jan-2007

flip a coin

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Re: Which machine to buy?: Posted by mike c on Friday, 05-Jan-2007
nevermind...you only need a coin if shopping between supermatic b's, 500 series, ultimatic's or topomatics...
as for sm2 compared to supermatic....do you want 100"s or non-filtered??? if not you may just get the 2 based on my reading this site
cheers
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Re: Which machine to buy?: Posted by scott johnson on Friday, 05-Jan-2007
if you plan on never making 100's, then the SM II should do it for you. you can adjust it a little to vary the release for the type of tube you finally stay with. i use my blue supermatic on the same setting for all tubes (king size) with all three common filter lengths: 15mm, 17mm, and 20mm. just with the tubes with 20mm filters (very cruz, ramback) a little tobacco is left hanging out the end. just takes a little tamping to seat it in.
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Re: Which machine to buy?: Posted by Captain U-96 aka Mike on Saturday, 06-Jan-2007
I'd recommend the Supermatic 2 if you aren't planing to make 100's. You will find it a good machine to learn on, and if not abused makes a nice backup later when you decide whether to go with a Blue Supermatic, Topomatic, or Ultimatic. Which ever machine you decide to buy--read the directions First! Then, if you have any questions; feel free to post them here. Mike
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Re: Which machine to buy?: Posted by Tim Aydt on Thursday, 11-Jan-2007
You can adjust the Supermatic II to make 100's. You just can't switch back and forth. My wife smokes King's and I smoke 100's, so I use big blue.

Smoker's Warehouse is where I got my II, I signed up for one month and then cancelled. I really and truthfully didn't care for their tobacco.
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Re: PS comparison w/ HU (machines)

Posted by mike c on Friday, 22-Dec-2006

I just decided to do a comparison of the 2 machines I have...
the Ultimatic has a slightly different cam, why that is I don't know,,,,,,as far as the size setting being nonadjustable, that seems to be merely that the "arm" that has the three size holes which is mounted to another arm is loose (the latter being lose), and can move when the crank bumps it.....while playing with the Supermatic, I could not personally tell any difference in the outward travel of the spoon, when set to kings, or 100's....now I am imagining there should be one, and am open to correction. I CAN say, that on the Ultimatic, the spoon DEFINATELY travels out further on the 100 setting....so I decided to make a 100, even though I don't use these....it came out about as perfect as you could get, not really requiring any tap, although I did tap it once out of habit.
I have been experimenting with the amount of "shake" that can be added in when making a cig, and can also say that for some reason the Supermatic is much more prone to locking up, or "jamming" if you will. The compressor (aka cutter) on the Ultimatic also has no paint at all, where the Supermatic appears to be painted on the inner curved edge. Neither of my machines are churning out any real overhang to speak of, and if so, none that won't "tap right in" with 2 or 3 taps and no more...not having to clip or trim

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Re: PS comparison w/ HU (addendum)

Posted by mike on Saturday, 23-Dec-2006

I don't think I understood corrctly.....now it looks to me like the king size and 100 size settings are really just a matter of release timing?? The spoon on the Hildbrandt comes out to where the crimped part is out also..the time release was not working at all and I didn't realise...I adjusted the setting onto the regular notch, and this allows it to function but still fills a king because the arm it's mounted on allows the spoon to come out all the way. The Supermatic spoon stops before the crimp is out either setting. please pardon my misunderstanding.

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Re: PS comparison w/ HU (addendum)

Posted by Kerry on Sunday, 24-Dec-2006

At least with the Supermatic, it is all in the release timing. The spoon travels just as far out no matter what the setting.

If the HU actually limits/extends the spoon travel depending on the setting, this may or may not be an improvement over the Supermatic. I guess it would depend on the implementation.

For "regular" filtered sticks I have my Supermatic set to the left-most setting. The markings have long ago worn off.

Happy Holidays!

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Re: PS comparison w/ HU (addendum): Posted by mike c on Monday, 25-Dec-2006
I just misunderstood....but the spoon does travel out further on the HU, possibly enabling it to do a better 100, however, you are of course correct about the time release being the changing factor.....yourself and Dave were the reason I went with these machines, and you why I went for an extra.....Very Happy Holidays to you!!!
mc
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Machines, Machines, Machines: Posted by mdc777 on Wednesday, 06-Dec-2006
I'm going straight to the point with this, will have to ramble later
clear your workbench Dave, make way on the photo galleries, new toys are coming
Zenomatic by HBI.......and
Gizeh Machine (of course no idea exactly WHEN)
Now I do have to brag and say that I now own a regular Supermatic, and have a plan to get a nice cheap Topomatic...
if I like the machines I will try to collect them all
I think people should have a difficult time navigating around the machines in my apartment, just like they did in my home crammed with records everywhere LOL...I sure could have used Dave to design me proper storage.....anybody wanting a deal on a Supermatic may get one reconditioned to tip-top shape at DnR for cheap. Mark absolutely blew my mind today, and my fragile mind couldn't handle the vast amount of incoming info I was given....I will go now to lie down, and you great fellow "elitists" are all clear now....if anybody "disses" me while I sleep, please do feel free to flame
I respect YOU ALL
mike c
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Excel nozzle

Posted by Ann on Friday, 17-Nov-2006

I just bought an Excel and the Nozzle cracked 3 days later. I'm new to the cigarette making game and may have broke it when the machine clogged up. From the very beginning I had a lot of frustration trying to get a tube on without the paper crunching up. The tube appeared to small for the Nozzle. I did make some good cigarettes when I finally got it on. But I spent a whole day getting about two packs of cigarettes. It didn't seem worth all the hassle. I had the handle all the way to the left, like the instructions said to do. I thought the Nozzle was to far in the machine to not help hit the sides when trying to insert the tube. It appears once the tube paper gets crinkled that's the end of it. My question: I noticed from looking at a picture of the Topomatic ( I hope that's right) the nozzle looks much further out from the machine then the Excel. Does this make it easier to insert the tube? Thanks, any comments would be very appreciated. I think I need a lot of help...lol

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Re: Excel nozzle

Posted by Dave L on Friday, 17-Nov-2006

The recessed nozzle on the Excel does make it harder to slide a tube on but it does get easier over time. It doesn't help if your tubes are a bit undersized. Some brands are more consistent than others. Silver Tip followed by Rizla would be my current best bets. Top/Zig-Zag/Gambler can be snug and there's been too many recent changes elsewhere. The Top-O-Matic and Supermatics have nozzles in full view and it does make it easier to slide the tube onto the nozzle. For dealing with crumpled tubes see this thread.

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Re: Excel nozzle: Posted by Ann on Friday, 17-Nov-2006
Thank you very much for your comment and link. I bought Escort tubes and they are a wee bit smaller then the Premier. But I did try a Premier tube and it wasn't much easier to get inserted. I may buy the Topomatic in a year or so. I ordered 2 Nozzles for the Excel today. It cost me 6.20 with shipping. Not bad When you consider the alternative, (a new machine). The Nozzle appears a bit flimsy and easily broken, so I decided to get 2 since the postage is the same. 5 bucks. The part was only .60...lol

Thanks again.....Ann
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Nozzle Diameter Info

Posted by short sharp shock on Wednesday, 08-Nov-2006

Hello, I have sent this post to the general forum because I am hoping someone is informed to a high degree. It is my understanding that most crank-machines have large nozzles that can sometimes be a problem. I am hoping some of you have handheld experience as well. My problem is that one of the old Rizla De Luxe injectors I bought had a large nozzle on it which I promptly changed to a smaller one so that I could use the Rizla "Cig Size" tubes. Not having 100 percent trust in RYO advice, I wonder if ANYONE has actually compared the two side-by-side and noticed a fuller fill with the larger ones?? I realize they all need tamping but if the bigger ones were fuller this should be less!!!
and if anyone has a large plastic one spare, that is the straight snap-in type I'd buy it or trade. (I broke mine)
thanks.
mc

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Posted by Dave L on Wednesday, 08-Nov-2006

With a smaller (ID) than stock nozzle tobacco can drag/hang up on the inside edge of the nozzle (i.e. getting better fill with the stock nozzle isn't surprising).

You're also trying to use 'cigarette size' tubes on an injector designed for tubes with shorter filters (i.e. the most likely cause of the tube tearing you mentioned elsewhere).

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Re: Nozzle Diameter Info: Posted by explanation to owner on Wednesday, 08-Nov-2006
"You're also trying to use 'cigarette size' tubes on an injector designed for tubes with shorter filters (i.e. the most likely cause of the tube tearing you mentioned elsewhere)."... (listowner)

Oh no no, I wouldn't have any confidence if I was that uninformed!!!! I just wanted to help "the masses" know that the Rizla machine included in the kit is NOT NOT NOT the only one you can use!!! The regular machines for kings work WONDERFULLY!!!! getting a large nozzle on a handheld is almost non-existent to my knowledge...however there may be some and I am all ears!!! I think Rizla improved their design down to a smaller nozzle, as I got both types. Anyway thanks for allowing me here and I just need to apologize for sounding too critical/smart-ass to another issue then it's off to bed. I will be here as soon as I wake up! I'll try to lurk,,,,,ooops let me add that the Rizla "freebee" with the kit has the crappy clamper to which I referred and it's nozzle IS TOO SMALL to try to do regulars on...
with gratitude
mike c
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Posted by Warren on Thursday, 09-Nov-2006

---
I think the optimum nozzle would have variable diameter -- when the spoon is in retracted state, the nozzle would be very narrow, ending in a point so that a tube in any shape or state can easily and quickly be inserted, at a wide range of approach angles. (This would be especially useful for non-filtered tubes which are packed flat in a box.)

Then as the spoon moves into the nozzle, the nozzle would expand (e.g. via a mechanism similar to those available in some pens or pencils) to the full tube width. After the spoon reaches the maximum extent, the nozzle would narrow again to block the injected tobacco from being pulled back, leaving just enough room for the spoon to retract. The spoon itself would also have a variable diameter, in the form of foldable "claws" which expand when the spoon moves out (so they can grab more tobacco) and fold back when the spoon starts retracting (leavng thus tobacco in the tube behind).

The present state of home injectors is unfortunately still quite primitive. It is clear that the people designing them don't use them. After all, how long would one have to use it to realize that a simple tobacco holding tray is the most basic time-saving necessity. I cludged one out of a little cardboard box and Scotch tape the same day I got the machine. The companies designing these machines should have their designer make few cartons on the current prototype over several days (so he can "sleep on it" after the use), then have him iterate the design based on his hands on observations and experiences. I would bet that anyone would add a tray on the first day.

Hopefully, the market forces will refine the designs over the next few years as SYO grows in popularity.

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Posted by Ann on Friday, 17-Nov-2006

That is a fabulous idea. In-fact, I'm surprised the better machines don't already have nozzles that compress for easier tube insertion. That would have saved me a lot of frustration and time. As it is, I don't know if this cigarette making is going to work out for me. The only big problem with that, is I bought a case of tubes because they were only 1.30 a box, if I did. So what the heck am I going to do with them all????

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Posted by Warren on Friday, 17-Nov-2006

The current injection machines are ancient designs, going back half a century or more. Even the latest top-o-matic, which is the best one at present, is essentially a faithful Chinese replica of an ancient Suprematic design, with only minor fixes for the most glaring problems of Suprematic (such a gunking of the cutter and a weak cutter for coarser tobacco cuts overflowing the chamber).

If there is a silver lining to the obscene taxes on premade cigarettes, which are getting ever more obscene after each election season, it is that they will drive even more fellow smokers into SYO. Then the market forces will solve these current problems with outdated, primitive injector designs.

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Re: Nozzle Diameter Info: Posted by Dave L on Friday, 17-Nov-2006
"weak cutter" = gunk :)
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Posted by Ann on Friday, 17-Nov-2006

I thought the constitution was supposed to protect Americans from unfair taxes. In my State, I pay more for the taxes then the cigarettes themselves. That seems very unconstitutional.

I wish people would start fighting against the Big Brotherism we seem to be living under. It's getting way out of hand, and personal rights have taken a back seat. Just my opinion.

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Posted by Wazmo Nariz on Saturday, 18-Nov-2006

Sadly, it isn't the opinion of enough people; American government and its Nannyism has gotten way out of hand. The Republi-crats aren't going to do anything about it--they have a vested interest (the addictive aroma of power laced with hubris) in the Status Quo. I often wonder if it isn't simply too late for this country to return to it's roots; it already seems that most people, content to divide themselves into red or blue cheerleading squads, don't really give a tinker's damn, so long as their particular gang gets it's slice of the action, and damn the expense.

A shame, really.

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Posted by Ann on Saturday, 18-Nov-2006

I agree. It seems Americans are more interested in fighting each other these days, instead of our repressive Government. Maybe this was the Governments plan all along. While, (way to many) people who are in two different camps (Dem & Reb) fight among themselves, our personal freedoms become chipped away day by day.

It is a shame they don't turn their anger where it really belongs. IMO, it should be directed toward the State and the Federal Government in general.

To get back on the subject of cigarette making. I've read that most commercial brands of cigarettes and tobacco are laced with chemicals. I really don't think smokers need that on top of the tar and nicotine. I've solved this problem by buying cheaper brands of Indian tobacco. I found by using Nic-Out filters, (which takes out most of the tar and some of the Nicotine) it makes for a much smoother taste, when smoking these harsher brands of tobacco.

What are your thoughts on this?

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Posted by Warrior on the Edge of Time on Saturday, 18-Nov-2006

*uncloak*
I leave the politics to those more qualified, as I am tempted to say "revolution", put them in FEAR!!!
anyway, here is a nice article from RYO magazine that most already have seen but here it is
[link]
mike c

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Posted by Ann on Saturday, 18-Nov-2006

Thanks for the link. Great article, and I agree with just about all of it.

In 2005 I got a statement from my State I owed back cigarette tax and interest of over 2000k. I had been buying cigarettes over the Internet for a couple years. To my dismay, I realized the lousy cheap cigarettes I was buying, had become more then 21.00 a carton. That was a very shocking wakeup call. In-fact I quit smoking for 6 months. I got over the initial nicotine craving, but I never got over the comfort and motivation smoking gave me. I never realized the roll cigarettes played in my daily routine. All I wanted to do was sleep and eat. I lost interest in most everything, and working without my cigarette to look forward to was discouraging. I think I subconsciously considered my cigarette as a reward for a job well done. In other words, I was miserable. From all the hype, I kept waiting for this so called new burst of healthfulness I would be rewarded by quiting. I waited and waited, but all I felt was unmotivated, sluggish from overeating, and depressed most of the time. Finally I said enough is enough, and that is why I'm here.

I think it is time for the cigarette smokers in America to unite and fight for our rights. We may be the minority, but we should still have the same right to happiness as everyone else in a true Democracy.

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Posted by Warrior on the Edge of Time on Saturday, 18-Nov-2006

Right on!! now if somebody would just point to whom, I'll be glad to raise a bit of hell.
as for quitting, yep, I think you just reach a stage in life when you accept smoking for good. When I quit, after 3 days of skin-crawling madness, it got better, but like you, the old comfort was gone and maybe food tasted better, but it changed my sleeping habits and some other things I can't discuss! lol! and now that I found this forum, it looks like I only just started, nevermind the past 30 years oh jeez!

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Re: Nozzle Diameter Info: Posted by Ann on Saturday, 18-Nov-2006
Hmmm, now I'm wondering what the other things that changed about you were. That was cruel on your part...lol

But to be honest, I haven't a clue to why I need to smoke. Maybe a good Shrink could tell me. All I know is, I'm not the same person without my cigarettes, and I found out I really didn't like that non-smoking person at all.
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Re: Nozzle Diameter Info: Posted by Ann on Saturday, 18-Nov-2006
LOL, not 2000K but 2K. If it had been 2000K, I wouldn't have bothered to quit smoking because I would have killed myself!!!
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