Maintenance

Posted by Dave L on Monday, 22-Jan-2007

I don't know about the red machines but the Blue and II rivets have shoulders and its a bit tricky to tighten them. Basically I use a vise and steel bushing to crown the heads, i.e. bend the perimeter of the head closer to the linkage. The rivets aren't soft and it takes a good amount of force to tighten them. The Top-O-Matic rivets are a joke in comparison. Because its so easy to deform/collapse/over-tighten them I'd recommend leaving them alone.

I also use real thin plastic washers between the mounting bolt heads and the linkage. You can see them and my first tightening attempt here. I had the bushing on the top side and when I saw how the top of the 'H' arm deformed (filed almost flat in the image, under the spring, hard to see) I realized there had to be a shoulder on the back side. For me the factory clearances/looseness (not wear and tear) just bugged me and I didn't notice a change in function.

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Posted by scott johnson on Monday, 22-Jan-2007

Dave, what I did was drive the rivets in tighter. looks like the same rivets as in your picture. I am planning on taking the h-link to my buddies shop and have him "re-ping" the other side to swell them out a little more so they won't slide back and loosen up.gonna see if he has any ideas for making the machine better also. he's a retired ?metalsmith? or something like that.

sj

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Posted by Dave L on Monday, 22-Jan-2007

The rivets on my Supermatics have three diameters, the smallest is where they go through the crossarm of the 'H' (the biggest is the head). The shoulder I was talking about rests on the crossarm, i.e. the rivets have a bigger diameter where they go through the legs (4 short pieces) of the 'H'. Hammering the heads might deform them but they cannot move/go anywhere (you cannot 'drive them in') because of the shoulder. Since there's a shoulder, all you need is a center punch to tighten ("re-ping") them.

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Posted by Dave L on Monday, 22-Jan-2007

The closest visual I have is a shoulder screw.

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Posted by scott johnson on Monday, 22-Jan-2007

AH! I understand. I'll try what you have done and see how that works. My friend has all those center punches and a press I'll either fix it, or be ordering a new H-link. :)

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Posted by scott johnson on Wednesday, 24-Jan-2007

Dave, now that I've sharpened the cutter like in your Supermatic maintenance section, It's doing so much better that I'm making perfect sticks on the king size setting. Even with tubes with 15mm filters. I can use Vera Cruz tubes with the size selector to the far right. I couldn't do that before. Going to try to find some nylon screws and try the cutter mod next. Or I might cut a groove across the bottom of the cutter and fill it in with some JB weld and make a "bumped line" across the bottom.

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metal-on-metal (please restore my insanity)

Posted by Dave L on Thursday, 25-Jan-2007

I wouldn't have expected that noticeable of a change but I'm glad its working out. Send me a SASE if you cannot find nylon setscrews.

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Re: H-link tightening: Posted by scott johnson on Saturday, 10-Feb-2007
I took the old H-link out of my bag-o-parts and worked on it some more. I put it on a piece of steel and hammered the rivets. Then I used a bench grinder to dress them up.

I reinstalled the old H-link back into my machine and put the new one away. My machine works a lot smother with the older H-link. The new model just isn't made for the old machine. Too much grinding and rework needed to make it work.

sj
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Posted by mike c on Sunday, 21-Jan-2007

this morning I was just shining up my machine after stuffing a few, had decided to clean under the cutter with a non-metallic probe. I had a little alcohol in there and cycled the mechanism, and I'll be damned if I didn't get a metallic scratch on the chamber floor. (there was NO probe during cycle) I can't understand how this occured/takes place...I am imagining most of you don't bother with such a thing as it's normal, right?? right??
also, someone please tell me how you know when you NEED a new cutter, as I wish to know. (with metal, obviously)

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Re: metal-on-metal (please restore my insanity): Posted by Wazmo Nariz on Sunday, 21-Jan-2007
To tell you the truth, the two year-old cutter I took out of my machine is still fine and still works. I was never one to sand the thing unnecessarily to clean it or remove light pits and scratches, however...I'd just clean the gunk off with soapy water and dry the thing before re-installing. I think I only gave it a light sanding once in all that time, after about a year. I would imagine under normal usage/care it should last for years.

If you're gonna clean under the cutter, you really need to take it out, which is a very easy process.

The only reason I ordered a new one was becasue I hated to pay more for shipping than the parts I was ordering from Arbro Inc., so threw a cutter into the order. That said, I'm glad I did because so far the new cutter has performed marvelously. Towards the end of this week I'll take it out for an inspection to see how it's holding up.
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Re: metal-on-metal (please restore my insanity): Posted by Dave L on Sunday, 21-Jan-2007
Aluminum and steel don't get along very well, chamber and cutter scratching is to be expected. Its surprising that it took so long for the plastic cutter/compressor to show up.
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Premier cleaning

Posted by Tim Aydt on Thursday, 11-Jan-2007

After extolling the virtues of the Premier Supermatic, I will now grouse about it. My supermatic had acquired several disgusting globs from being negligently left out on the kitchen table and counter. Icing, butter, etc. Although it was performing fine, I decided that it was time to give it a good cleaning.

After looking back through the posts below, I see that the last time I had cleaned it was in July of 2005.

So, I took it apart, cleaned it completely and reassembled it. Now, it's not making smokes worth a crap. LOL Oh, it makes king's just fine, but my 100's all have a gap between the filter and tobacco.

I guess I will have to wait for it to gunk up a little before it starts making good 100's again.

The lesson here is: If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

I don't use any lubrication and it worked for over a year and a half without any problems.

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Re: Premier cleaning

Posted by Dave L on Sunday, 21-Jan-2007

Gunk (or lack thereof) doesn't affect the gripper/release timing, i.e. cause gaps. A year and a half and cleaning it didn't give you a smoother/easier running machine??

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Re: Premier cleaning

Posted by Tim Aydt on Sunday, 21-Jan-2007

Actually no, the mechanical functioning was nearly perfect. I believe difference was caused by the fact that there was a 3/16 inch plug of tobacco on the spoon at the crimp. I cleaned that off and now it's not pushing the tobacco as far as before. I also flipped the gripper to the unworn side and now it tearing tubes.

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Re: Premier cleaning: Posted by Dave L on Sunday, 21-Jan-2007
Sounds like it was the gripper to me, flipping it gave you better grip. That its ripping tubes means the release timing is a bit too late. Because the worn side allowed tubes to slip more, the late release was a non issue.
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Pam works for me: Posted by Jo on Wednesday, 22-Feb-2006
I tried Pam spray to keep the friction down since it was the only thing in the house at the time. It works very well for me. The tobacco doesn't stick to it like you would think. The first pack I stuffed had a few oily looking spots, but other than that it is still working for me 5 weeks later.

I haven't tried it, but I think it would probably be better to spray a qtip with Pam and use it to coat the spoon & packing area to avoid the oily spots. Or use a qtip to wipe the spoon area after spraying to absorb excess.
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What to use to oil tube injectors

Posted by Tim S. on Monday, 10-Oct-2005

I took my new supermatic blue apart, it was pretty easy really. I sanded alot of the parts with 240 grit sand papper, did the arm change and put s few shots of pan cooking oil on it.

I was going to put high temp bearing grease on it, but thought it may not be the best thing to use with tobacco. So I'm wondering what, others use to oil their ???

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Re: What to use to oil tube injectors: Posted by Zippy: on Tuesday, 11-Oct-2005
I wouldn't use any grease. The loose tobacco (shake) will mix with it and defeat the entire purpose.

There are some silicone spray products that dry completely, but I would not use it on the cutter/packer or anything having to do with the spoon injector.

In my humble opinion, smoothing the none cutting surface of the cutter/packer with extra fine sandpaper, then buffing same with extra fine steel wool will do just as much as lubricant.
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Posted by Kev on Tuesday, 11-Oct-2005

I don't use anything on the parts that come in contact with tobacco since any lube will cause gunking. I use silicone spray on the mechanical parts underneath.

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Posted by Matt on Saturday, 15-Oct-2005

Others here will tell you and so can I that Goo Gone works great. I first applied it to my blue Supermatic about a month ago, and could see how well it was still working when I took it apart today. Another idea you might try is plain old pencil lead. I haven't tried a really soft lead like 5 or 6b, but I think that #2 graphite just drawn onto contact surfaces does make a noticeable difference.

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Posted by Rob S on Saturday, 11-Aug-2007

I have a small container of graphite, called guitar grease, that I bought for the nut slots on my acoustic guitar. I applied just a very small amount to some of the pivot points on the mechanisms. Works great so far.

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Posted by mike c on Sunday, 12-Aug-2007

here is the answer....once your mahines break you in as welll as you they, absolutely NO lubricant in needed. period. However, if you have a metal/aluminum cutter, some fun can be had by usung a few small shots of heavy duty silicone spray (get it with the tube-extension), and there are other things can be used as well, maybe soembody will add on here:
but the main truth is this NONE!!!! (and you can spray it on linkage, etc, before you stop)

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Posted by james on Thursday, 16-Aug-2007

I clean my machine about every other month. I completely disassemble it, clean it with alcohol and lubricate it lightly with olive oil. As long as you don't use powdery tobacco, bi-monthy maintainencs is more than adaquiate. Do you want to smoke silicon oil? I cook alot and don't mind breathing a little olive oil.

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Re: What to use to oil tube injectors: Posted by mike c on Thursday, 16-Aug-2007
well, me personally, am fearless of inhaling just about anything, but you'd be correct that silicone isn't a great choice, however such a tiny amount is needed (if used) and it doesn't alter the tobacco flavor,,,,BBBBBBUTTT,
if I must stand corrected then how about this reply:
official word from Arbro Inc, authorized service center for RBA and the Supermatic: use only a tiny bit of regular oil. I state again, lubrication is not needed, it is simply a tendency to want to do it.
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Re: Supermatic: Posted by Denny on Tuesday, 11-Oct-2005
Hi although I am fairly new to the Stuff Your Own market I have run into many of the similar troubles that a lot of people have with the Supermatic. Here are some of my maintenance remedies that I have acquired since owning my machine.
First off most problems are usually with the cutter/compression bar, or the loading spoon. I have done what many newbies done, as far as oiling the machine at the strategic points, only to find that the oil only complicates the original problems.
Because the tobacco dust/shake tends to locate itself in tight tolerance spaces, it is wise not to lubricate these areas. So then what do you do? Well when my machine starts to get gunk-ed up, I take off the bottom pad, and soak my machine in the kitchen sink with plain hot water, (don't use detergent, just hot water) I then carefully work the mechanism of the machine while it is submerged. This gets out all the loose tobacco which clog's up the machine.I then take the machine out of the sink, and throughly dry either with a towel,or hair dryer. I would highly recommend that you keep your machine oil/grease free! If your spoon is either hanging up, or not moving smoothly, you might want to consider smoothing the spoon channel with a very fine sand paper, or steel wool.
This brings us to the cutter/ compressor bar. I took my bar out, and used 4 ought steel wool, and polished the entire bar. If I load a lot of smokes, I usually polish the cutter edge to keep it polished (no need to take out the cutter bar). Remember to use a very fine grade of steel wool as the aluminum is very soft, and a coarse grade will only make your cutter gather more gunk, and not less. As someone stated before, CTC really should make this cutter out of a better material, such as brass, or stainless steel. Oh yea one other thing, you should occasionally polish the inside and outside of your tube nozzle, and the metal spoon with the 4 ought steel wool. This method seem to work the best for me.
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Posted by Mary on Friday, 05-Aug-2005

Can anyone tell me how to clean and lubricate my Supermatic II and about how ofter this needs done?
I am new to SYO but will never go back to buying cigarettes. Besides the savings I enjoy my SYO more.

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Posted by Tim Aydt on Friday, 05-Aug-2005

First, learn how to take it apart and put it back together. The cutter is the part most prone to having problems when it is dirty. Tobacco has a tendency to gum up the bottom of the cutter, this needs cleaned off. The cutter may often get scuffed, either on the top, bottom, or blades. I use an emory board to smooth these down and sharpen the blade.

I usually clean everything with q-tips and lighter fluid, and then reassemble. If you want to oil it, use the oil sparingly. Oil attracts powdery tobacco and will cause it to gum up quicker. Others advise using silicone spray. I don't lubricate mine very often.

As for, how often to clean it? As often as it needs. I know that is a sucky answer, but it really varies per user. I haven't cleaned my Supermatic II since I first got it four months ago. I cleaned my Premier three weeks ago. That was an elapsed time of seven months since my last cleaning.

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Posted by Kev on Friday, 05-Aug-2005

I think it depends on the machine too. My original Super II required cleaning about every 6 packs. My new one (a few months old) hasn't been cleaned yet. Personally, I think the fit tolerances in the tobacco chamber/cutter vary from machine to machine.

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Posted by Dave L on Saturday, 06-Aug-2005

I tend to agree with you. I am curious about the potential differences in your machines. When you turn your machines upside down, is there a difference in spacing between the metal plate and plastic tab that sticks up between the end of the main spring the end of the spoon? Does the cranks plastic bushing (under the cam) come through a plain (flat) hole or a flanged/lipped hole? Looking at the side of the cutter housing, how tight/parallel is the gap between the housing and main plate? If there are differences, which is the 'better' machine? Thanks.

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Posted by Tim Aydt on Saturday, 03-Sep-2005

Dave, can you explain this better I'm just not getting it?

"is there a difference in spacing between the metal plate and plastic tab that sticks up between the end of the main spring the end of the spoon?"

And, is the flanged/lipped hole on the top of the machine or on the underneath side?

"Does the cranks plastic bushing (under the cam) come through a plain (flat) hole or a flanged/lipped hole?"

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Posted by Dave L on Sunday, 04-Sep-2005

My machine with a flanged hole has a larger gap, between the plate and the locating tab, than my flangeless machine. A large gap equals linkage binding because the metal plate isn't properly located relative to the plastic housing. I'm wondering how consistent the II's are, if all flanged hole machines have a large gap/linkage binding.

[snipped]

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Re: Supermatic II cleaning: Posted by Tim Aydt on Sunday, 04-Sep-2005
Keep in mind that my Supermatic II is one of the old brown ones.

It is flangeless and is fitted fairly tightly. I can barely get a business card in the gap between the plate and the locating tab.

I did notice that the cam had a flattened spot right before the transition point, where the metal has curled up a bit and at the point where the linkage contacts the machine body, there is a small rubber disk to absorb the impact.

I just checked the cutter carriage on all three machines I have at the house and the Supermatic II and my blue Premier both have a gap similar to your Premier. My vintage Premier has a parallel cutter carriage. All three have very tight tolerances between the cutter and the carriage. One thing I did note that I hadn't before, is that the spoon guide on my vintage Premier is not curved, but flat like the Supermatic II. I'm sure this is why the spoon that wouldn't work in my blue Premier when I bought it, works fine in the vintage Premier.

I have never noticed any linkage binding on the Supermatic II. My wife uses it the most and finds it easier for her than the Premier Supermatic, so I doubt if she has experienced any problems. I have a feeling that I would break it if I used it on a daily basis. I'm not very gentle.
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Re: Supermatic II cleaning: Posted by Warren on Friday, 05-Aug-2005
After trying various oils and silicon greases, I found that tobaco sticks to those surfaces even more, making the machine (Suprematic Premier) perform worse after the brief initial improvement. Finally my wife suggested Goo Gone and that works perfectly. It is a generic glue & gunk remover. I apply it very sparingly (with q-tips) then wipe it out. This leaves the surface non-sticky and slightly slippery, allowing removal of tobacco by just blowing at it (quite unlike the oiled surfaces ).

I started using it first on the plastic slider (at the back end of the tobacco spoon) and its metal shaft. That worked great, so I expanded its use to all other moving contact points. The next greatest positive effect (after the plastic slider, which was the main gunking problem) was for the top and bottom surfaces of the cutter blades. See the earlier thread "Librication & Cleanup" for more details: [link]

Another tip for the basic cleanup is not to shake/blow off the tobacco with the machine "belly up" until you remove the rubber bottom. Namely the tobacco will gather on the rubber bottom and fall into the mechanism if you turn the machine belly up. I first remove the bottom, brush it off (with a paper tissue), then blow few times from below into the mechanism and that does the inside. Then I flip it belly up and blow off the top surface (which is now at the bottom).

I have taped a little box (plasticized cardboard) on the top to hold couple packs of tobacco close to the chamber, so that needs a bit more cleanup (just brushing off with a tissue) than the plain top surface. Dave, the host of this site, has built a professional quality "hopper tray" for this purpose: [link].

I had also taped all the gaps on the chassis through which the tobacco can fall into the machinery. I don't know why the designer had left at least half a dozen gratuitous gaps around the base. In any case, they're now all shut.

At present, the Suprematic machines are the best stuffers available. But they are far from optimized designs in many ways. I am hoping that the growth of the SYO (fueled by the merciless robbery of smokers by the unholy quintet of greedy bureaucratic parasites, slimy lawyers, back stabbing big tobacco, snake oil peddlers from the "health" racket and sneaky pharmaceuticals pushing their own nicotine, cheered on by the anti-tobacco yappers from their do-gooder fronts and from the bribed mass media lapdogs) will bring in some talented mechanical engineers to come up with much better machines. The most time consuming part is filling the tobacco chamber. The tray helps here quite a bit (and it should be a default part of the machine), but it still requires manual separation and stuffing of the chamber. That at least ought to be doable automatically. After that, the mounting of the tube onto the nozzle (especially time consuming for nonfiltered tubes) might be solved via some tube spools, where the rolled up tube gets pulled onto the nozzle, stuffed and cut automatically. One to two seconds per stick would be fine with me.
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Posted by Dave L on Saturday, 06-Aug-2005

Like Tim says, the primary issue is tobacco buildup on the bottom of the cutter. When the first stage of the action (where the cutter moves) gets too stiff, take the cutter out and clean it.

Lubrication is overrated and not particularly important. Any significant changes resulting from lubrication are symptomatic of other issues (e.g. linkage binding and cutter clearance). Use a small bit of grease on the edges of the tube release and cam (grease lasts longer on sliding pressure points) when the action feels a bit rough at the very end of the stroke (when the release engages). After cleaning the cutter use a bit of dry lube on the linkage joints. Stay away from any kind of oil (tobacco will cling to it and it will do more harm than good), especially vegetable oil (which turns to a gummy mess when exposed to air for an extended period).

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