Spoonless Supermatic
Posted by David Brown on Tuesday, 08-Apr-2008
I have found that with the supermatic C. model you can achieve perfect smokes without a spoon. More information including pictures can be found here
[link]
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- Re: spoonless supermatic
- Posted by Dave L on Wednesday, 09-Apr-2008
It looks like you had a bit better success than I did [link]. In my experiment, the action was rougher/stiffer and the tobacco tended to be over-packed and recessed in the tip. While I could have put the release plate back on and adjusted the timing to avoid the over-packing/recessed tip, the action would still have been stiffer due to the increased friction inside the chamber. Being happy with my current setup, I didn't pursue it in depth.
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Edit: Moved old thread to this page and changed above link... removed slightly OT sentence.
- Re: spoonless supermatic
- Posted by Freddie on Wednesday, 09-Apr-2008
Dave, I think the full length spoon is needed because it corrects the chamber to nozzle misalignment/gap and reduces stuffing pressure. I think the reason that spoon was put on is to guide tobacco throught chamber/nozzle much more than into the paper tube.... As long as the MIDDLE of compression chamber is not overstuffed, there should be no problems with sticky tobacco on spoon.
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- Re: spoonless supermatic
- Posted by Jeffo on Wednesday, 09-Apr-2008
Thanks Dave for sharing this information. I have a Supermatic C Series and I'll be trying this mod. soon. All I'd be out is a $3.75 spoon or maybe a used spoon. Looks like it should work. I'll let you know how it goes... Jeffo
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- Re: Spoonless Supermatic
- Posted by mike c on Wednesday, 09-Apr-2008
David
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how fun!!! now _that's cool_, that you did that!!
BTW, you can just take the tube release mechanism off completely, that's how my machines are
I imagine Dave will find this quite interesting considering he has experimented in this direction
- Re: New Electric Magnum Injector
- Posted by Wazmo Nariz on Tuesday, 26-Jun-2007
I was wondering why this principal couldn't be applied to a crank machine. I don't have my Supermatic handy at the moment to eyeball it, but why couldn't you remove the rod/spoon assembly and replace it with something to simply push the compressed tobacco plug into the tube? In fact, I wonder if you could simply remove the spoon from the rod it's affixed to and have *it* push the tobacco plug into the tube?
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- Re: New Electric Magnum Injector
- Posted by Wazmo Nariz on Tuesday, 26-Jun-2007
Thinking about it, I guess you'd have to affix something in the "front" of the chamber (meaning the side that typically faces you as you're using it -- the side with the size selector) to make up for the missing spoon and to provide a curved surface....
Anyhoo....
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- Re: New Electric Magnum Injector
- Posted by Dave L on Tuesday, 26-Jun-2007
I was thinking about this as well. Even if it was doable, friction inside the chamber would increase significantly. This would likely result in increased lengthwise compression and tighter packed cigarettes (not something on my wish-list). There would also be some added friction inside the tube which would increase the load on the gripper.
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- Re: New Electric Magnum Injector
- Posted by David Brown on Thursday, 28-Jun-2007
I am giving a lot of thought to taking a carbon fiber push rod for a radio controlled airplane and getting an extra spoon for my supermatic and explore the possibility of gluing about 1/2" of it on the base of the spoon then cutting the remaining spoon off to that length and that should create a ram sort of like the magnum.
just would depend if it would glide through the chamber though.
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- Re: New Electric Magnum Injector
- Posted by David Brown on Thursday, 28-Jun-2007
After eyeballing my current spoon in my super I think this could work.
The spoon is crimped on a round pastic shaft that glides though the chamber now. If a 1/4" of cabon fiber push rod or something simalar could be glued at the crimp and fit inside the metal spoon so that it would create the same diameter just extending a little longer than it is now, then cut off the remaining metal spoon leaving a plug that should in theory anyway push the tobaccon through the chamber into the tube just like tha magnum.
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- Re: New Electric Magnum Injector
- Posted by David Brown on Thursday, 28-Jun-2007
With all respect to Dave, how it works now is the tobacco is compressed into the chamber when it closes and the spoon slides up on the outside helping the plug at the end push the tobacco into the tube along with the spoon.
My super on the outside has what looks like a Teflon coating in the inside of the chamber and the same on the cutter side. (I still have the metal cutter in my super)
I could see the possibility of more compression but if your not over filling it shouldnt be overwhelming. It would probably be less with the plastic cutter.
As long as everything in the spoon action is tight with no unusual slack it should I think anyway clear the chamber into the tube as it does now just without the drag of the spoon coming back out of the tube causing a filter void.
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- Re: New Electric Magnum Injector
- Posted by Dave L on Sunday, 01-Jul-2007
Consider that it is possible, with very moist tobacco (e.g. London Export, fresh out of the can), to get noticeable tobacco plug pileup/lengthwise compression, when the plugs only drag/friction is against the cutter/compressor face.
Once the tobacco plug is inside the larger diameter tube, pressure/friction between the spoon and tobacco is released/reduced, and the spoon can retract without creating voids. Voids caused by cutter retraction are the result of too much/moist tobacco.
You could just cut the spoon off at the base. The base of the spoon, in the Supermatic (not the II or TOM), is a bit outside the chamber (instead of flush to the inside). You could use bumpers on the end of the spoon arm if that bothered you. I like Wazmo's idea of a spacer on the chamber face to keep the plug diameter small/firm/original... but you'd have to extend it through the spoon guide to maintain a straight track. A plastic cutter and spacer might mitigate the friction issue.
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- Re: New Electric Magnum Injector
Posted by Dave L on Tuesday, 13-Nov-2007
For some reason I hadn't really noticed the Magnum's longer chamber (thx Freddie) - its a bit more noticeable on their manual injector drawing - and that got me to thinking. Longer chamber equals longer plug. The only way a longer plug will fit inside of the tube is if it is compressed lengthwise inside the tube. The only way that would work is if the plug were less compacted than it is with a spoon type injector. With a less compacted plug there would be less friction inside the chamber (my earlier concern). Instead of an over compacted plug that expands (diameter-wise) to fill the tube, lengthwise compression inside the tube causes the expansion and makes the push-rod (VS spoon) viable.
...My first experiment with a push rod Supermatic worked better than expected. The action wasn't smooth, the tobacco was inset 1/4-3/8" on the 22mm filter cig size tubes and, while all were smokeable, some were packed a bit too tight. There's lots of room for improvement but I think the chamber length will be a limiting factor.
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