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Excel questions and comments.
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- Excel
- Posted by mark harrison on Wednesday, 27-Sep-2006
I have only had it for a few days, but absolutely enjoy it. I had a topomatic for a bit over a month and that machine was horrible at getting a good consistent smoke. The excel however is doing good so far. With the topomatic it would constantly jam up, quite the opposite with this little plastic wonder.
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I do agree with others that the gripper isn't all that good thought, but what I found was to just hold the top of the tube during the last part of the cranking motion. You don't have to do it every time, only when the tobacco is a bit tight. Works great with both El Rey, Premiere, and Top tubes.
- Re: Excel
- Posted by scott johnson on Wednesday, 27-Sep-2006
I've had mine for about 3 months, 2.5 packs per day, and I'm very satisfied with it. a good working little machine.
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- Using an Excel with 22mm tubes
- Posted by Tolley on Friday, 08-Sep-2006
Will the Excel fill a 22mm tube without ripping the paper? I want a milder cigarette (trying to convert my wife) and I hope to use a 22mm on the Excel. Would buying a Supermatic (the adjustable one) be a better option?
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- Re: Using an Excel with 22mm tubes
- Posted by Tolley on Friday, 08-Sep-2006
I should add, that I believe I posted 22mm when I meant 20mm.
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Also my goal here is to make a cigarette much more palatable for my wife so the lighter the better. Could this be done with just a certain regular sized tube?
- Re: Using an Excel with 22mm tubes
- Posted by Dominick on Friday, 08-Sep-2006
I use both 17mm and 20mm tubes in my TOM. I don't make any adjustments. There's no tearing with the 20mm tubes.
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I do have a tearing problem with hand injectors and the 20mm tubes.
dominick
- Excel and Rizla cigarette sized tube
- Posted by Dave on Thursday, 17-Aug-2006
Two things need to be done.
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1. The "nozzle" diameter needs to be reduced, however removing enough from the outside diameter makes it (in my opinion) way to thin... so I cut off the 'nozzle' from the nozzle plate, and created a step in the inside diameter by slightly enlarging the inside diameter from the machine side of the nozzle plate.
Then using the spare nozzle from a Rizla hand injector and triming off the uneeded plastic (leaving just the nozzle and a thicker area behind it) pushed it into the Excel nozzle plate.
Remove most of the excess now projecting to the rear of the nozzle plate and refit it... (if the plate is bending due to the new nozzle still projecting to far rearwards, then don't force it... just remove a little more until its a snug fit)
2. Reduce the spoon length until the spoon just pushes the tube from the gripper.
No other adjustments need to be made.
However.... you will now be the proud owner of an Excel machine that will only fill the "Rizla cigarette sized tube"
Ho hum..
Purchasing the dedicated Rizla hand injector is a much cheaper option.
- Re: Excel and Rizla cigarette sized tube
- Posted by LMO on Tuesday, 05-Sep-2006
My spoon on this Premier Excel machine just broke. I liked it better than the Supermatic machine because it was easier to grip while stuffing.
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Is this just a fluke? I need a new machine and I liked how the Premier Excel handled.
Thanks.
- Re: Excel and Rizla cigarette sized tube
- Posted by Dominick Versetto on Tuesday, 05-Sep-2006
American Thrust sells the part for $2. Or if you order $90 or more they'll recondition your machine for free.
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- Re: Excel and Rizla cigarette sized tube
- Posted by Ralph on Wednesday, 06-Sep-2006
Spare parts for your Excel and Supermatic can be found at www.arbroinc.com. I broke quite a few Excel spoons over the years but I'm better at making them last now days. I just don't crank it like a maniac like I used to.
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- No Excel In Carry-On Baggage
- Posted by JD on Thursday, 23-Mar-2006
I had to fly to San Francisco last weekend and thought I'd take my brand new still-in-the-box Excel with me to crank out a smoke or two while waiting for connecting flights. No such luck.
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The security people in Atlanta confiscated it, claiming the spoon could be used as a weapon. Never did get to try the thing out.... :-( I'm glad I didn't bring along Big Blue!
- Texas XL
- Posted by Joe on Monday, 20-Mar-2006
Looking for info. about the Texas XL. It looks just like the Excel.
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- Re: Texas XL
- Posted by Kev on Tuesday, 21-Mar-2006
Interesting. I've never heard of them but a quick Google shows ZiggyMart has them for a whopping $40. It sure looks like a knock-off of the Excel. They seem to be selling on the Swiss domain websites.
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- Re: Texas XL
- Posted by Joe on Wednesday, 29-Mar-2006
I only paid $5 for it on ebay. It is working fine so far. I though for only $5 it worth a try.
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- Re: Texas XL
- Posted by George on Friday, 24-Mar-2006
they are a knockoff of the excel. They are not made by Premier, so they do not have the one year warranty.
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- Re: Excel
- Posted by Warren on Tuesday, 05-Jul-2005
Just got the Excel (platinum color) machine as a backup for the blue Suprematic. I can't make it fill the tube consistently. It always leaves few mm of empty space at the nozzle side, pushing the tobacco out on the far end (I use non-filtered Excel tubes, but it also leaves the same amount of empty space on the filtered tubes, regular size). All of the tobaccos and tubes tried work fine on the Premier Suprematic. After opening the Excel, it seems the reason for the problem is the late release of the the tube -- the tube is held too long and the ejector comes out on the far end of the tube with the tobacco, which leaves the nozzle side empty. Perhaps weakening the spring that pushes the tube holder would weaken the grip on the tube and might help (but it could also ruin the machine)?
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If I pinch with my fingers the far end of the tube just as the ejector is to exit there, the tube does fill in Ok, but this takes too much hand acrobatics, since the left hand is already busy holding the unit down. Also, inserting the tube just half way onto the nozzle helps somewhat (the tube is let go in time), but this again requires too much of a high precision tube positioning for a quick production. So, neither solution is very usable (other than in desperation).
Has anyone seen this problem and found a practical solution?
- Re: Excel
- Posted by jeff on Tuesday, 05-Jul-2005
Hi, I use an Excel platinum as well. I happen to like the machine alot, but I find that certain (filter in my case) tubes are less compatible with the machine than others. Premier Kings work flawlessly, Top and ZigZag end up with empty gaps by the filter side, sometimes. I'd like to try other tubes to find a favorite. Can anyone who can relate to this recommend a tube that works well with the Excel that has less of a noticeable taste?
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- Re: Excel
- Posted by Reed on Wednesday, 06-Jul-2005
I unfortunately broke my Excel platinum after 2 years of service and bought a premiere II. I like the Excel a little better and will be buying another shortly. The filters that worked best for me were the Rizla+ and Vera Cruz Nocturnes. The trick to getting All brands of filters to stuff correctly in this machine is to put your finger behind the tube when pulling the crank. the machine tends to let go a little sooner on some of the thinner tubes.
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- Re: Excel
- Posted by jeff on Wednesday, 06-Jul-2005
You mean hold the tube in place by the filter end as you crank? I see Excels on sale for about $25 or less, it's not a big deal to replace the machine after a few years. Certainly worth it. Why is the Supermatic considered a better machine than the Excel? What would an Excel user experience with a Supermatic that is superior? Better cigarettes?
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- Re: Excel
- Posted by Ralph on Wednesday, 06-Jul-2005
I started on an Excel and upgraded to a Supermatic. I use the Excel as a backup. The Supermatic is heavy duty metal and it flawlessly fills a king tube on the 100 setting. It overstuffs it but I prefer that over the understuffing that is chronic with the Excel. The recessed nozzle on the Excel is another problem that you won't experience with the Supermatic. The Excel is a pretty darn good machine but I consider it a toy compared to "big blue". If you're a heavy smoker, go Supermatic.
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- Re: Excel
- Posted by jeff on Wednesday, 06-Jul-2005
I make "kings" not 100's so I've never experienced understuffing or overstuffing with the Excel unless it's my error. I've never experienced any problem whatsoever with the Excel, to me it functions flawlessly - as long as the tubes are perfectly compatible, in my case the Premiere.
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I have an old red used Supermatic that I bought on Ebay a while ago cheap - it's heavy and metal. Is that the equivalent to the "big blue" supermatics of today? Maybe I'll check it out soon, out of curiousity. Later, Jeff
- Excel -- Not designed for non-filter tubes
- Posted by Warren on Wednesday, 13-Jul-2005
After talking to George (a nice, helpful fellow) at ARBRO, where I sent the machine for possible repair, it turns out the Excel doesn't stuff the non-filtered tubes. It is a design limitation. So, I will have to get another blue Suprematic for backup.
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- Re: Excel -- Not designed for non-filter tubes
- Posted by tom on Saturday, 15-Oct-2005
the new premier excel injector that i have will stuff the non-filter Excel tubes. i use Dutch blends. there is however a gap at the machine end. low end tobaccos don't work well. so i suggest you go to your tobacco store and give it a try.
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- CTC Machines
- Posted by syot on Saturday, 11-Jun-2005
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I have now had a chance to use all the CTC machines a good bit. I am not very easy on these machines as evidenced by the number of repairs I have made on them already!
I started with a Premier. The main problem I had is that it required constant cleaning when used with all but the dryest tobaccos. I would have to dry them to 50%, stuff, then put the finished sticks in a plastic container with a small tub of hydration crystals to bring them to around 60%. When trying to inject 60% tobacco, I constantly have to scrub the top of the cutter blade with a fingernail, otherwise the blade sticks and will not retract properly. Another problem is that, perhaps from the dry tobacco, the bottom of the cutter and where it slides in the base of the Premier gets rough and has to be sanded on a regular basis to keep the operation smooth. Would take it apart, lightly sand the cutter and where it slides and it would work well for another carton or so. Sometimes one of the H nuts holding the H link assembly would come loose, so it was important to check it on a regular basis. Once I tightened it down with a wrench but the H nut sheared off. Luckily I had already purchased an Excel to have in this situation so got it out of the box and started using it. In the meantime I ordered some new H nuts and bolts from Arbroinc and went ahead and ordered some extra replacement parts for both the Supermatic and Excel. I also bought a Supermatic II on sale at the local tobacco shop.
The Excel makes good sticks and I like the "single" action mechanism it uses. The injector nozzle is a little small, though, and only certain papers work well. The Premier papers I have tried (out of probably two or three different lots) are too small to work in it, so if trying to use them about half are thrown out. If only the nozzle were a tiny bit smaller. However, Windsail papers, which are apparently larger in diameter, always work. ZigZag, Vera Cruz, and McClintock papers work most of the time, only having to throw away about 10% since they won't fit on the nozzle, but extra care needs to be used when placing them since the tiniest wrinkle prevents them from fitting on the nozzle. If only the Excel had an easily accessible and slightly smaller nozzle like the Supermatics. But, the Excel makes sticks much better than the Supermatics. The Excel plastic doesn't stick to the tobacco like the metal on the Supermatics and it can easily stuff 60% RH tobacco without gumming. But, the main difference is in the spoon.
I was wondering why the Excel made better sticks than the Supermatics and discovered it is the spoon design. Although the same *metal* spoon component is used in both the Excel and the Supermatics, it is placed on the plastic shaft differently. The effective length of the spoon on the Excel is 1/4" less since some of the shaft sticks through where it is pressed on. I bought the Supermatic II it since I figured less packing would be necessary versus the Premier since the II is only designed for king size. It is virtually impossible to pack sticks on the Premier perfectly such that no tamping, packing, or pinching is necessary to deal with the extra 1/4" of tobacco sticking out. The Excel usually packs sticks such that no additional work is required - a real time saver. However, the Supermatic II uses the same *&!@ spoon assembly as the Premier - one designed for 100's. I should have noticed this on the parts diagram before buying one! Then, I overstuffed the Excel and destroyed it. It would not work at all. Looking at the assembly, I could not figure out what was wrong. The spoon did not look bent. However, I had a new spoon and cutter plate and proceeded to install them. Then really screwed it up. To replace the cutter plate it is necessary to remove the tube tip holder assembly, which is a little rectangular piece of plastic with a spring inside and a tiny tab on the base plate holding it down. I broke the tiny tab and with nothing to hold the tip holder assembly down it was then impossible to fix. I should have also ordered a new base plate (only $1.20 at Arbro). However, looking at it, I still cannot figure out how to remove the remove the tip holder assembly when the tab is in place! How is this done? Also, it was impossible to remove the spoon assembly since the threaded tube in it spins inside the spoon shaft, so it is impossible to remove the bolt that holds it in. It is now worthless except for perhaps a few of the nuts and bolts to use as spare parts.
I replaced the H bolts and nuts on the Premier and got it working again. I replaced the cutter plate and sanded the area where it rubs against the base to make it smooth. Cleaned all the old grease off it and gave it a light coat of moly lube. It worked really crappy and needed more lubrication. I took it apart again and used real grease on all the moving parts that did not touch tobacco. The best grease I found is available at Home Depot in the plumbing section and is a silicone grease made for faucets. A tiny tub is about $3. It is non-toxic and does not destroy plastics. Got the Premier working very smoothly, but still, the 1/4" tobacco remains after pressing, despite many adjustments to the release assembly to see if that would help. With the new cutter plate and the sanded bottom, though, it works well with even 60% RH tobacco so no drying is necessary for most of the tobacco I use. I expect that it will soon become pitted though and require constant cleaning again.
The Supermatic II works well but the action was really rough until it was used a while. It also benefitted from a little extra grease. I will hold it in reserve to use if the Premier and Excel break again.
I also bought a new Excel. Even with the Premier working smoothly and Dave's hopper tray mounted on it, I can still make sticks faster on the Excel since they do not required additional packing.
I am going to order a few Supermatic spoons and see if the metal part of the spoon assembly can be removed and pressed/glued on the shaft with a quarter inch of the shaft sticking through, like on the Excel, so it would make sticks as good as the Excel. It makes me angry that the Supermatic II spoon assembly is designed to make 100s and not kings, like the Excel's. It would be much better if CTC made a spoon expressly for the II, even if it were aftermarket. Then Dave's hopper tray could be used, and manufacturing would be faster and easier. Or a new model of the Excel which incorporated a small hopper tray into the Excel cover - I don't think the huge hand hold is necessary and a good design engineer could easily incorporate a tray into it - also while exposing the nozzle to make it easier to place the empty tubes, and making the nozzle a few microns less in diameter so at least their own tubes could be used!
- Re: CTC Machines
- Posted by Ralph on Saturday, 11-Jun-2005
You are right about the couple taps. I just tried it and that's all it takes. I saw the guy at RYO do it and he tapped it about five times. No more wrinkled ends of my cigs and it might actually increase production rates. Thanks for the tip.
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- Re: CTC Machines
- Posted by syot on Sunday, 12-Jun-2005
Thanks for the response. The moly lube I was using is similar to Dri Slide. It seemed like for at least the big main bolt, though, the silicone grease works better. Plus, as Ralph mentioned, I would go with the least toxic lubricant I could find, and I am wary of the petrochemicals in stuff like moly lube, dri slide, wd-40, and such. Since the silicone grease is actually rated for potable water contact, I also put a thin layer under the cutting plate and that made the action much smoother. I would not put molyebdemum, teflon, or a petrochemical on this surface. You are correct, it is catching tobacco and will still have to be cleaned often, but during this time I think the action will allow me to stuff the 60% tobacco smoothly unlike before plus it may not get as scratched up and required sanding often to keep it smooth.
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On the Excel, I removed the round post to remove the spoon assembly, but this did not address the threaded insert in the spoon slipping inside the plastic so that the bolt could not be removed. Doesn't really matter, though, since the spoon looks fine compare to the new one.
Thanks again for the tips.
- Re: CTC Machines
- Posted by Ralph on Saturday, 11-Jun-2005
The guy at RYO magazine did a number of videos which might help you. They include a section on the tube release mechanism. You might find this useful for fine tuning your machines to make kings to your liking. I personally leave my Supermatic on 100's and make kings with them. I find it's the only way to get a fully packed cig almost all the time. The pinching and packing go with the territory because I even pack my Excel cigs to prevent tobacco loss. Some guys tap the cig and their production counts must suffer greatly. I just press the end with my thumb or forefinger. He also has a video on how to get the tube on. He comes in at an angle and I find myself doing it as well. My burn rate on the Excel isn't near your rate. I don't throw any tubes out but I find about one in five or one in ten, I crimp the end of the tube on the Excel and have to smooth it out to get it on. You are right that the recessed nozzle is a bad design. Here's the link to his videos. It's definitely worth a look:
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http://www.ryomagazine.com/multimedia/
I heard that the guy at Abro will rebuild your machine. I don't know what he charges but it might be less than buying a new one.
As far as using plumbing goop on your machine, I'd be a bit wary of that. Even if it is non-toxic, it probably isn't designed to be smoked and exposed to your lungs. Somebody here recommended vegetable oil and I've using that. I used WD-40 on my Supermatic when I first bought it and tried to keep it away from the spoon. Even then I was a little concerned about inhaling it.
- Re: CTC Machines
- Posted by jeff on Saturday, 15-Oct-2005
Last night I cleaned, and then I lubricated my Excel with a few little dabs of olive oil. I presume that there is no concern of mold forming, is this correct? It works very well and the very slight scent or flavor of the olive oil is an enhancement.
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- Re: CTC Machines
- Posted by Dave L on Sunday, 16-Oct-2005
Cooking oils are almost worthless as a metal on metal lubricant. They have nothing in common with lubricants designed for the purpose. While cooking oils won't mold, some will turn rancid and some will dry out, and turn into a gummy mess, when exposed to air for an extended period of time.
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- Re: CTC Machines
- Posted by jeff on Sunday, 16-Oct-2005
Yikes! My bad. Well my next cleaning session will be sooner and more extensive than the last cleaning.
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What do you recommend as an effective lubricant that is relatively non toxic to the lungs?
- Re: CTC Machines
- Posted by Dave L on Monday, 17-Oct-2005
With the Excel there's really no need for lubrication. Plastic shouldn't be lubricated and the high stress cam stud (on the cutter) has a rotating sleeve. All the metal parts are safely away from the tobacco chamber. You could use a touch of grease on the sliding surfaces of the cam and dry lubricant at the stud (get it inside the sleeve) and metal joints/connecting points. See the Supermatic Maintenance page for some ideas.
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- Re: CTC Machines
- Posted by Tim Aydt on Monday, 20-Jun-2005
From the troubles you have described, it sounds like you are overstuffing your machine with tobacco. I have never heard of many of these problems occuring from anything but operator error.
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I am very abusive to my Premier Supermatic. I, occasionally, will put all my strength into operating the handle, but I have yet to break anything. Any lube, or grease, that you use will only attract powdery tobacco and cause excessive wear, unless you clean it frequently.
I only have to clean my machine every six months or so, and I make between two and three cartons per week.
- Re: CTC Machines
- Posted by Kev on Monday, 20-Jun-2005
I think QC varies from machine to machine. My first Supermatic lost it's king-to-100 adjustment at the rivet the first day I owned it. This machine would be lucky to last a carton between cleanings. I bought a 2nd Premier about 6 weeks ago. It has yet to require a cleaning though it's lower volume for the spouses blend (I've resorted to the Excel for my stuffing).
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- Re: CTC Machines
- Posted by Kev on Sunday, 18-Dec-2005
Just an update, after stuffing my own smokes on the Excel for 7+ months, the return spring on the arm broke. I grabbed the return spring on my "spare parts" Supermatic which is larger but works until I get to the hardware store. I had assumed something plastic would break first but at least this time it's repairable. This is the first time I've had the machine apart. Other than some tobacco needing to be clean out I did not see any worn parts. With the square crank pivot being plastic I'm rather surprised.
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I average stuffing a pack a day on the Excel and maybe 5 packs a week on the Supermatic for the spouse's blend. I've used Supermatics longer than the Excel. For some reason, I can still stuff faster and better on my Excel.
- Re: CTC Machines
- Posted by Bob Johnson on Monday, 11-Sep-2006
Hi! I just stumbled across your excellent web site while looking for some answers and boy! Did I find them! I just moved to Spokane, WA from the Dallas/Fort Worth area of Texas and was flabbergasted at the difference in price for the readymades due to the "sin taxes" the State imposes. So now I don't even buy my occasional pack of unfiltered Camels, which I like once in awhile.
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As for the spring in the Excel, I took mine out long ago. The machine works just fine without it, even better when you consider that you aren't cocking the spring when you yank the handle. Of course, you have to return the handle to the original position to make sure that the tube clamp opens. Otherwise you get the dreaded crimp on the end of the next tube.
I have a Chinese chopstick that I use to uncrimp the tube. Slide the chopstick inside the tube down to the filter and then roll your index finger over the tube going from the filter end to the open end while turning the chopstick. Japanese chopsticks have a square "handle" so those don't work as well.
Hope this is of some interest. Ciao.
- Re: CTC Machines
- Posted by Dave L on Tuesday, 21-Jun-2005
I find that if tobacco is gumming up the cutter its not only too moist to stuff, its too moist to smoke. When tobacco is too moist the flavor of the tobacco is muted and cigarettes are harder to smoke. Harsh or strong tobaccos benefit from high moisture because it takes the edge off. I won't buy tobacco that needs to be really moist for me to enjoy it. While some tobaccos are more prone to gumming the cutter than others, gumming is probably a better gage of RH than your hygrometer (sounds like its reading really low).
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You're right, the Excel is more forgiving of high moisture tobacco. The, self lubricating, plastic construction allows for tighter fitting parts and tobacco doesn't stick as easily to plastic. The Excel has a lot of things going for it. For me those positives were overridden mostly by the hidden nozzle and a gripper that, over time, wouldn't grip.
There's a lot of folks who talk about disassembling the machine and sanding the cutter. The roughness (created by abrasive elements in the tobacco), on the bottom of the tobacco chamber and cutter, only gets so rough. The rough surfaces actually have very little to do with the smoothness of the machines action. A sanded cutter will become rough again in a matter of days. What bogs down the machine is tobacco powder that gets packed between the bottom of the cutter and the tobacco chamber floor. Tobacco that's too moist will stick and gum up the works a lot easier. Dryer tobacco more easily migrates out of the machine.
I ran my Supermatic II for over 1-1/2 years without disassembly. One thing I do is stand/hold the machine, with the back of it facing down, and rapidly move the handle back and forth through the first stage (where the cutter moves). I'm pretty sure it helps keep to keep the chamber clean. When the action does get sluggish I don't mind getting a little LPS1 in there to help loosen things up and I do have compressed air to blow it/tobacco out. I don't have to do it very often.
I don't know how useful it might be but I just discovered that you can slide a trimmed 3x5 card in through the slot and under the cutter. This probably won't remove wet or caked up dust but it might be good preventative maintenance. Brass shim stock might be worth a try.
- Re: CTC Machines
- Posted by Warren on Monday, 18-Jul-2005
> When trying to inject 60% tobacco, I constantly
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> have to scrub the top of the cutter blade with
> a fingernail, otherwise the blade sticks and will
> not retract properly.
Instead of fingernails, I use an expired credit card cut exactly to the width of the slot (on Premier Suprematic). I stick the card on the top of the blade and press it down (holding the card in a fixed position against the back wall of the slot) as the blade pulls back and its edge swipes the sharp edge of the card. That cleans the blade perfectly in every cycle and also prevents the overflow tobacco from being pulled into the crack between the blade and the chasis, reducing the need to clean the mechanism.
- Re: Excel-video
- Posted by Roger on Tuesday, 17-Aug-2004
For the folks new to making your own here are videos of a making your own cigarette machines, untill Doug at RYOmagazine gets his site up to speed here is a good place for beginners info, dont be scared, Its easy!!
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http://www.customblends.com/