Hydrating Tobacco

Posted by Neil on Friday, 11-May-2007

I'd recommend picking up some silica beads and distributing them throughout your humidor as they'll eliminate the taste of the spanish cedar. If you'll look below you'll notice I had a lot of trouble with my humidor until I had started using this method. You can purchase them through heartfelt industries if you're looking for ease of use or at your local pet store if you're willing to adjust volume to find the relative humidity you desire. The heartfelt industries webpage has a calculator to help you determine the volume and you can simply add or subtract as you need to reach your desired rh.

Personally I use silica cat litter in pantyhose packets (one packet over each of my tobaccos) and a gel humidifier. The beads would work out well enough - I only use the humidifier so I don't have to remoisten the beads myself. Good luck.

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Posted by Dave L on Saturday, 12-May-2007

The volume of beads does not determine the relative humidity (RH) inside the humidor/container, the beads themselves, their RH rating does. If you never opened a 100% airtight humidor it wouldn't matter if you had one or one hundred pounds of beads inside, the the RH would be/stay the same.

With a humidor that isn't 100% airtight you could, theoretically, calculate the a minimum volume of beads required to maintain the desired RH. Unfortunately there are just too many variables for it to work with any consistency. The variables include the rooms temperature and RH, how much moisture the room can remove from the humidor, the volume and ratio of air and tobacco inside the humidor, tobacco moisture %, how often you open the humidor and for how long.

Using a gel humidifier in conjunction with silica beads could could have unexpected results. If the gel is rated at 70% and the beads at 65%, the gel will be releasing moisture to the air (until the air reaches 70%) and the beads will be absorbing moisture from the air (until it reaches 65%). What happens is either the gel dries up or the beads saturate (if they weren't saturated to start with, i.e. overcharged), i.e. the resulting RH inside the humidor will end up being 65% or 70%, more likely the later IMO.

I'd be curious if there is any consistency (bag to bag, brand to brand) in the silica kitty litter and what its ballpark rating is. Has anyone tested it inside an empty (charged beads only) 100% airtight container with a known good digital hygrometer?

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Re: Hydrating Tobacco: Posted by Neil on Tuesday, 22-May-2007
In my experience with my humidor the volume of beads directly correlates to the rh. The litter I'm using now, Exquisicat Pearl Fresh, initially resulted in an rh of 63% when following the instructions to determine the volume of beads recommended by Heartfelt. I later increased the volume and was able to maintain an rh of 65%. After inserting in the humidifier my results became inconsistent, the rh shifting from 67% -70%.

Aside - It is probably safe to say that this only applies to non-airtight containers as an airtight container would not allow any of the humidity to escape (though I wonder if this method might completely saturate the air after a few weeks). As I've read more I know understand that all humidors are not airtight and constantly exchange air. Of course, I am not an expert and these results were achieved without much scrutiny on my part.

As kitty litter comes in gallons I'll throw some in a mason jar and measure the rh and then play around with the volume of beads and the seal of the jar and see what happens.
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Home made Humidor

Posted by NJDrew on Sunday, 18-Mar-2007

Nobody probably remembers, but I was talking awhile back about making my own humidor with my brothers help. Well we have been working on it on and off during the weekends for about 3 months and finally finished it. We had fun, learned a lot and we are quite pleased with the finished result. It’s made of Cherry and Spanish Cedar with brass accents. You can see pictures here: [link]

Let me know what you guys & gals think. :)

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Re: Home made Humidor: Posted by JerzyJoe on Sunday, 18-Mar-2007
Nice Job!!!
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Posted by Smokin n Jokin on Sunday, 18-Mar-2007

Very nice. Can I ask you where you got the Spanish cedar? What do you use for humidification?

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Posted by NJDrew on Monday, 19-Mar-2007

The Cedar I got from my local wood guy. He owns a custom cabinet shop, but sells unfinished wood on the side. The humidifiers are in picture 3 [link] , in the cigar/cigarette drawer. They are the cheap ones, but I figured I would give them a try first, before spending money on good ones.

P.S. There are two in that picture, but I will probably one use one. Two will be too much.

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Posted by Dave L on Monday, 19-Mar-2007

If the humidifiers regulate the humidity at the percentage you want, it wouldn't matter if you used one or a dozen. They look like the Credo type (propylene glycol/H2O) which is likely a bit higher than you want (70+%RH). With that drawer, silica gel beads (65-69%RH) in a shallow tray would work well

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Posted by NJDrew on Monday, 19-Mar-2007

You have a good point, it shouldn't matter how many I use if they infact are half decent at regulating the humidity.

I do have one DryMistat tube of crystals [link] which I bought a while back, lost and recently found. Its only rated for 25 cigars, which Im not sure would be enouph for this size of humidor. I will give it a try if the other one or two :) humidifiers dont work.

P.S. I like my tobacco moist 75%RH. I think that tastes best. These are all (both crystals and boxes) designed/rated for 70%RH.

P.P.S. Dave do you have any guesses as to how log it would take for these devices to build up a proper humidity level in this size humidor?

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Posted by Dave L on Monday, 19-Mar-2007

Did you get a 75% reading on a digital hygrometer? With the exception of Look-Out, all my tobaccos become unstuffable at anything over 70%RH.

I have no experience with humidors. I do know it can take weeks for wood to absorb moisture and fully equalize with a new environment. After that I wouldn't be surprised if, after closing the door, it takes a few hours for the environment to stabilize. The increased surface area of two humidifiers should be faster than one. Its relatively expensive but I like the idea of the Cigar Oasis with its circulating air and adjustable humidity level.

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Re: Home made Humidor: Posted by NJDrew on Tuesday, 20-Mar-2007
No, thats on an analog gauge. Ive been meaning to buy a digital one, just havn't done it.
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Posted by NJDrew on Thursday, 22-Mar-2007

As it turns out, the Credo type humidifier was too much. I put in my tobacco (14 oz Penhooker Light and 14 oz Windsail) and the RH soared past 80 according to my crappy hygrometer. I removed the credo one and used just the tube of crystals and it appears to have settled on 71 RH. I will give better numbers when my digital comes in. I orderd a Caliber III which should arrive soon. (tks for the reminder Dave)

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Posted by Neil Fredrickson on Friday, 23-Mar-2007

Drew, if you could please let me know if you keep your jars open or closed it'd be a lifesaver. Though I would think the answer is "open" a lot of people have been suggesting I keep them closed. Any help please?

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Posted by NJDrew on Friday, 23-Mar-2007

I’ve been keeping them open. I don’t see what the point of keeping them closed would be? It defeats the purpose of putting them in the humidor. What where the reasons they gave you for keeping them closed? The only reason I can think of is, scents from one blend might transfer to another blend in another jar. So far I've only been keeping penhooker light and windsail in my jars, as a 50/50 blend of those makes up my daily smoke. I think I have some athey at home; I will try an experiment tonight with that and windsail in the same container and see if the smells transfer.

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Posted by Neil on Sunday, 25-Mar-2007

Thanks for the advice. I was confused by the idea of storing them closed as well. All of the advice I have been given has been speculative but those that gave it suggested there'd be a risk of mixing flavors, destroying the wood, the wood absorbing the smell, too much air exchange, and so on. So far open containers seem to work wonderfully though.

Perhaps my pallet is more keen than I'd like to think (I suppose I have had a slight cold lately) - after a few days of smoking the blends I had in there the cedar taste has become barely noticeable and what is noticed is only pleasant. While all of the blends I have been storing in my humidor are made of the same two or three components that I am (now) storing in larger quantities (ramback, two-timer and windsail) I can still distinguish between them fairly well (though the ramback does seem to have dulled a little - but what do I know?). Still, it'd be nice to hear how your experiment went if only for reference (as my tongue is apparently inept). I plan on tossing some halfzwares and some heavily flavored/topped tobaccos (read: stokkebye) in my humidor as well, I'll post with the results in a few days. It seems my humidor is quickly becoming one of my prized possessions...

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Re: Home made Humidor: Posted by Dave L on Sunday, 25-Mar-2007
I don't think anyone suggested using closed containers in a humidor. The only concern was regarding your idea of storing the tobacco loose and in direct contact with the wood, that it might affect the taste of the tobacco (transference via direct contact - wood flavoring tobacco, tobacco flavoring wood and so on).

My thoughts on air exchange were a possible explanation for why cigars are stored in humidors, why their storage requires a humidification device. The only time I have needed to add a humidification device to stored tobacco was when the tobacco was over a year old and stored in plastic containers that weren't 100% airtight.

The problem I would have with storing different kinds of tobacco in a humidor is that I like different tobaccos to have different moisture contents (e.g. Look-Out @ 74% and London Export at 68%). While I have provided numbers, I use taste and stuffability to determine when my tobacco is conditioned to my tastes.
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Re: Home made Humidor: Posted by NJDrew on Sunday, 25-Mar-2007
Sorry, I posted a reply to your reply bellow. Maybe I will just reply up here, to keep it all in the same place :).

I guess once you get use to the cedar smell it isn't so noticeable anymore. I haven't tried the joining of two tobaccos in a container yet, I got side tracked. I will set it up now.

Dave, I understand what you mean by different RH levels per blend as it seems Windsail is always more moist than Penhooker light when I get them. I perfer to raise the Penhooker up to the Windsail level, but that's just my preference.
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Re: Home made Humidor: Posted by NJDrew on Monday, 26-Mar-2007
Neil, I didn't have any Athey, but I did have Rowland so I used that and Windsail. After 24 hours, smelling the Windsail it did pick up some of the scent from the rowland. You can also taste it when stuffed and smoked. Right now the Windsail only seems to have picked up a small amount of the smell. Im going to let the rest sit in the container for the rest of the week and see if it gets stronger.

For the other experiment the cigarettes in the glass and plastic trays still picked up the cedar smell. I guess its something I will have to get use to.
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Posted by Neil on Saturday, 31-Mar-2007

I can't make up my mind.

Dave - I must have misread your suggestion but talking to several others they all suggested I store the tobacco closed or slightly ajar.

Regarding the spanish cedar taste, which would seem to be the only real negative of owning a humidor, I feel lately it has become more potent (due to these new blends having been stored longer). Sometimes it is overwhelming, others it is barely noticeable. I have another sack of my daily blend (equal parts ramback, two-timer and windsail) stored in a mason jar that I intend on using as a second comparison now that I'm more familiar with the taste of cedar in a few days (it needs to dry out some). Hopefully the difference is negligible - I really enjoy having so much tobacco/so many blends ready to stuff at any time without conditioning but the woody taste can sometimes be too much (and, as I said earlier, the ramback is definitely dulled).

I have yet to visit my tobacco store to pick up those pouches of bali. I assume the toppings will make a significant difference, here's hoping. When I do I will be sure to post results.

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Posted by Neil on Monday, 02-Apr-2007

I have started storing my beads in separate sacks on top of my blends and bulk tobacco rather than in one container so as to limit the transference of the varying smells - after all, the signs at Petsmart indicated that silica litter was best for smells. So far it is working wonderfully; I have noticed almost no impart of the cedar or other tobaccos on whatever tobacco it is I'm smoking at the time (at least so far). Hope this helps someone.

P.S. Drew - Heartfelt Industries sells their beads in sheets - you might consider purchasing a sheet and storing your made cigarettes under/above the sheet. Good luck.

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Re: Home made Humidor: Posted by NJDrew on Tuesday, 03-Apr-2007
Thats good news. I will look into those sheets of beads.
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Posted by Neil on Wednesday, 21-Mar-2007

That's a beautiful humidor - nice work. It sort of makes me wish I had built mine rather than buying...
As I'm very new to this whole business I've got a few questions maybe you can help with.

Are your jars open when they're full?

How do your smokes taste? I've only been using mine for a day and the spanish cedar seems to overwhelm the taste of the tobacco. I only have a few blends in small amounts stored in there for now. Maybe the taste won't be so overwhelming when I load it up? On the same note I have a really dull pallet (well, I think I do) and I smoked two cigarettes made of very similar blends at once and could hardly tell the difference (odd as it had felt pronounced earlier) - the one stored in the humidor obviously had a cedar taste to it (ESPECIALLY on the exhale) while the one that wasn't seemed to have a nuttier taste (the Two-Timer tobacco was more pronounced on the inhale as well as the Ramback on the exhale). Have you noticed any significant difference in your tobacco's taste?

I've been storing my tobacco loose or in open baggies... judging by your humidor and the recommendations from Dave and others I think I'm gonna go pick up some jars now.

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Re: Home made Humidor: Posted by Neil on Wednesday, 21-Mar-2007
P.S. I lied - I've been using it for three days. Anyway, it took my humidor three days to reach the recommended 70% rh. I let it continue to season for two more just to be safe, but there really wasn't any reason to.
After seasoning I find it only takes an hour or two for the humidor to bring the humidity back-up (so long as it wasn't more than 3-4% below where you want it). Using some beads and a credo humidifier the humidity remains pretty stable and, when it drops, drops very slowly - it took six hours to drop 2% in my case, though my humidor is definitely smaller than yours (and it has only been three days).
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Posted by NJDrew on Friday, 23-Mar-2007

Hey Neil, Sorry I didn't see your post earlier. It sounds like your tobacco, the tuff being stored lose is picking up sweat from the cedar. I haven't noticed any taste difference so far, however I haven't stored any made smokes in the cigar tray/drawer (whatever it is ;) ) either. I’m still in the habit of making smokes for the next day. I’m going to change that though, and start making for the following week.

So far my humidor has been good on just the tube of crystals (71% RH). It took one day to charge up and stabilizes in about an hour after closing the door. Like I said above, my RH jumped when I added the tobacco so your might do the same to. I’m guessing the tobacco was shipped with a higher RH, than what’s generally desired.

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Posted by NJDrew on Sunday, 25-Mar-2007

I let some smokes sit the cedar tray for two days and tried them and they do taste like cedar. I don't know if them temporary or not? I'm going to make some more and it them in a open plastic container and glass tray in the tray and see if that makes any difference. I will keep you posted.

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Re: Home made Humidor: Posted by NJDrew on Sunday, 25-Mar-2007
P.S. That was horrible grammer. Thats what I get for posting fast. Im going to put stuffed smokes in a glass tray and open plastic tray/container and put them in the cedar tray and see if that helps.
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Humidors?

Posted by Neil on Friday, 09-Mar-2007

I just ordered my first humidor. My question - can I store the tobacco loose within the humidor (it's got two dividers and i've typically got three varieties in large amounts so the shoe seems to fit), or should I keep all of my tobacco in containers within the humidor?

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Posted by Matt on Saturday, 10-Mar-2007

The stronger blend(s) may overpower the weaker blend(s). I wouldn't store a strong halfzware like MacBaren alongside a subtle blend like Look Out Milde without some kind of an impermeable barrier. ( I do really like the idea of having a humidor and three slots filled to the brim with fresh loose tobacco and no plastic bags, though.)

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Posted by Neil on Saturday, 10-Mar-2007

The three blends I buy in large amounts are two-timer, ramback, and windsail. Do you think the ramback will overpower the others?
I plan on storing some bali red and some halfzwares in there (gauliose and amsterdam blend), but in their pouches (and probably in the included tray). I imagine that will be okay?

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Re: Humidors?: Posted by Matt on Monday, 12-Mar-2007
You could try testing it out by putting small, open containers inside of a larger container. Maybe you could use 3 teacups full of different tobaccos inside of large tupperware (or your humidor) container.
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Posted by Dave L on Saturday, 10-Mar-2007

In the past I toyed with the idea of making my storage cabinet a humidor until I realized that the only reason to have a humidor was for conditioning tobacco (and why not just condition my tobacco in the storage containers). If I have tobacco that has the right moisture content, why would I put it in a humidor instead of a nice airtight container (seems like a pointless maintenance issue to me)? If you're using a humidor for conditioning tobacco, you'll want the tobacco in shallow open containers.

I'm not a cigar smoker so I don't know the all the reasoning behind humidors. Is it like storing a bunch of loose tobacco in drawers, where the ratio of air to tobacco is high, where there's a lot of air exchange (lost moisture) because you're opening and closing the humidor a lot (taking out a few cigarettes worth of tobacco at a time)?

With airtight containers I don't have problems with tobacco drying out and don't use a humidification device. The tobacco may be a bit dryer when its almost gone but its never too dry. The only time I have found a need to add a humidifier is with tobacco stored, for over a year, in plastic containers that weren't 100% airtight. [edited]

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Posted by Neil on Saturday, 10-Mar-2007

This is a good point I hadn't really considered but I've already made the investment...
From what the product description says about the humidor, it is airtight. From what I've read about humidors the benefit of having one is that it'll maintain the humidity (thanks to the spanish cedar and "air-tight" seal), whereas you (supposedly) lose some of the flavor and cut of your tobacco as it dries out and is rehydrated. I can't vouch for this as until recently I didn't even bother "conditioning" my tobacco (I would buy a pouch a week or a can every few and toss it in a mason jar) and just smoked it until it was too dry to use, maybe sprinkling some water on it if the cut had been maintained through the moisture loss. I decided to look into a humidor because a few weeks ago I started conditioning my tobacco (as I started buying in much larger quantities) with poor results - often times my tobacco is too moist, then I'll remove the napkin I'm using for a night and get tobacco that is too dry, and I'd rather not risk letting my tobacco and dry out and possibly losing it's cut. I don't mean to authoritize - I'm probably more lost than anyone on this site regarding this issue. I hope it proves to be a worthwhile investment and I'll post some results, but for now I'm off to the pet store to pick up some humidification beads.

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Re: Humidors?: Posted by Wazmo Nariz on Saturday, 10-Mar-2007
I have a humidor, but only because I like to keep a decent-sized batch of cigs made up (I try to keep about a carton's worth made up), and the humidor I have is a nice piece of desk-top furniture (plus I got it *real* cheap). It's aesthetically more pleasing than a piece of Tupperware sitting on the coffee table or desk, and it's a little more precise than Tupperware and a sponge or something, but other than that.... :-)
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Posted by Neil on Thursday, 15-Mar-2007

Is it okay for me to keep my tobacco loose in the humidor? Will the shake (on moist wood...) be a problem? My humidor is almost seasoned and I'm worried storing the tobacco loose might damage the wood or be impossible to clean.

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Re: Humidors?: Posted by Wazmo Nariz on Friday, 16-Mar-2007
Everything you need to know about humidors: [link]
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Posted by Dave L on Friday, 16-Mar-2007

In addition to being easier to clean and use, putting the tobacco in separate (shallow open-top) containers might be safer. After seeing how tobacco can contaminate plastic (washing doesn't take away the tobacco smell) I'd be worried about the wood absorbing/releasing essential oils/flavorings. I think cigarette tobacco flavor is more fragile than cigars, that it would be a lot easier to 'contaminate' or change the flavor of loose cigarette tobacco... On the other hand it would be interesting to see if/how storing loose tobacco in Spanish Cedar affects the flavor.

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Re: Humidors? (OT)

Posted by scott johnson on Friday, 16-Mar-2007

A question? You said that washing doesn't take away the tobacco smell. Have you tried adding white vinegar to your wash water. It's a general use deodorizer. When I stopped smoking in the house, before the baby came home, I sat out several bowls of vinegar and it killed the smoke smell in the house for good. It did require airing out the house to get rid of the vinegar smell though. But, the cigarette smell didn't come back.

just a thought...

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Re: Humidors? (OT): Posted by Dave L on Monday, 19-Mar-2007
I haven't tried white vinegar. I've been using glass for some time now. I checked a couple of the old plastic containers and they smell like plastic now.
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Hydrating Tobacco

Posted by lipps1948 on Tuesday, 02-Jan-2007

[Re:] Heartfelt Humidification Beads [link]

Read these threads from Cigar Aficionado On-line [link]

I started using this and have not looked back since.

Silica gel beads. It's available unscented in kitty litter for about $6 for a 5 lb. bag. The kitty litter I bought at Pet store holds my RH at 65%, it's the same thing just a lot cheaper. Read cigar forum sites such as Cigar Aficionado Do a google search on-line for "Litter Pearls" cat litter. You will want the Litter Pearls Crystal Clear type, and not the fresh step. This comes in an eight pound bag for under $12, or a four pound bag for under $10 or so, and is exactly the same thing that Heartfelt beads are made from, silica sand and water. The Litter Pearls tend to be a little larger in diameter, but work just as well. My RH holds between 62-65

Beware of the Exquisicat brand of litter crystals. You have to find the ones without the blue deodorizing crystals in them, which is getting harder and harder to do. If you order on-line, make sure they are the ones without the blue crystals in them.

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Posted by platoslostdialogue on Tuesday, 02-Jan-2007

That's funny you mention the Litter Pearls. I just started working at a petfood store and a bag of these broke open in the back and a little lightbulb went off above my head. Haven't tried them yet but I'm sure they'll be perfect.

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Posted by scott johnson on Wednesday, 03-Jan-2007

ummm, how much litter pearls should be used per ounce of tobacco?

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