Top-O-Matic Archive (Aug - Dec '05)

Posted by Kerry on Tuesday, 20-Dec-2005

I'm not sure, but I think the TOM came out or at least became visible on this forum AFTER the more humid months of the year. My Supermatic has all the same good qualities you and others have noted about the TOM during these drier months. The real test for the TOM will be when the weather gets really humid once again. I could be wrong, but I think we will be seeing more complaints about the TOM and Supermatic (as usual) when the ambient humidity gets high enough to make it harder to keep tobacco from getting too moist. Right now I have trouble keeping the tobacco from drying out too much!

Just a thought.

Kerry

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Posted by Tim S. on Tuesday, 20-Dec-2005

That is very true and a good point, I did not think of that at all. My problem is it drying out as well, so yes moister tabbco could change things so what.

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repairs

Posted by lorraine danish on Tuesday, 07-Feb-2006

WHEN I BOUGHT THIS MACHINE, I THOUGHT IT WAS THE BEST. COMPARED TO THE OTHER ONES I BOUGHT. I HAVE HAD A PROBLEM WITH IT. SO I CALLED THE RETURN DEPT. TO EXPLAIN WHAT HAPPENED TO IT. SHE WAS RUDE TO ME. THESE MACHINES ARE NOT CHEAP. I HAVE TO PAY TO HAVE IT SHIPPED, THEN I HAVE TO SEND YOU MONEY TO SHIP IT BACK.I DID TELL MY SONS HOW GOOD THIS MACHINE WAS. I SURE DO HOPE I STILL DONT HAVE PROBLEMS WITH IT WHEN IT COMES BACK/I DONT NEED SOMEONE TO BE RUDE TO ME. I WOULD LIKE A RESPONCE TO MY LETTER, THANK YOU LORRAINE DANISH

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Re: repairs: Posted by Bob on Tuesday, 07-Feb-2006
Premier has the same policy on the Supermatic. You must pay shipping both ways.
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Posted by MyFaceFrozeThatWay on Tuesday, 20-Dec-2005

I'm convinced that most of the problems people have with their PS machine (and like you mentioned, probably with the TOM come more humid weather) is using tobacco that is just too moist. Living in Florida, I have a serious problem with humidity...it can take hours for a batch of London Export to dry properly. I think most folks are too scared that they're drying their tobacco out too much when in fact it's probably not enough. I used to have the same problems...filter end voids, gumming up of the cutter, jams, you name it--until I learned the difference between properly dried out tobacco and not.

In my experience it should be crispy feeling, yet not to the point of crumbling to dust when compressed between your fingers. The strands should keep their basic shape when you compress a wad with your fingers, but the wad should immediately spring back to it's original shape/size. Too moist tobacco will tend to remain compressed for quite awhile after this test.

Like I said, being in Florida I broke down about a year ago and bought a dehumidifier for the room I make my smokes in. I keep the humidity about 50% and make sure the tobacco is properly dry before stuffing. I have since *never* had any problems whatsoever with jamming, voids near the filter, etc. I can damn near overstuff the machine as much as I want and still have a smooth (albeit a bit hard) action. I've found it's also im-portant that the tubes be kept as dry and humidity free as possible...it seems to reduce the friction considerably.

Anyway--Merry Christmas to all! I've gotta finish my letter Santa about that 20 pounds of Windsail Platinum and 10 pounds or so of Two-Timer Gold I've been thinking of....

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Re: My Review Of The Top-O-Matic: Posted by James on Wednesday, 21-Dec-2005
My Christmas wish would be for a few grams of that 10 pounds of Turkish stash Dave over at RYO is hoarding. I'm not greedy :)
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Posted by Carla on Tuesday, 27-Dec-2005

Just was wondering if you know of a website where the tom could be purchased. I have been trying to find one here in Ohio at a store and have had no luck. Thanks so much.

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Re: My Review Of The Top-O-Matic: Posted by Kev on Tuesday, 27-Dec-2005
Look under the retailers link. I know Detroit Tobacco has them for $40 and RYOCigarette for $50. There may be others with varying prices too.
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Re: My Review Of The Top-O-Matic: Posted by Warren on Tuesday, 27-Dec-2005
I got mine from Lil' Brown (for $34.10):

https://www.lilbrown.com/index.cfm?productid=4821
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Re: Top-O-Matic - What have you guys been smoking?

Posted by Ray on Tuesday, 27-Dec-2005

Got mine in Elyria Oh.for $30.at Original Smokers Outlet.

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Re: My Review Of The Top-O-Matic: Posted by Captain U-96 AKA Mike on Monday, 31-Jul-2006
Thanks Ray for the info! I am going to replace my Supermatic 2 with a Top O Matic, and would have paid $43.95 for it at Cheap Tobacco! Original Smokers Outlet is still selling them for $29.99 plus tax. Almost saved enough for a bag of Ramback!
Thanks, Mike
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Posted by Dave L on Saturday, 19-Nov-2005

Note: This isn't targeted at anyone and only covers the construction of the TOM VS Supermatic. I do wonder what's going on though. The only answer that I can come up with (the first is in the title :) is that both machines tolerances have degraded (I got my Supermatic ~3 years ago and my TOM yesterday).

Warren said: stronger metal...thicker metal for the main gear components

All metal parts are the same thicknesses as on the Supermatic (2.2, 1.8 and 1.6mm). All brass colored parts (most at pressure and wear points) are brass, i.e. softer/weaker metal.

Warren: blade... better fitting with the chasis & guides

The cutter on my TOM fits a lot looser than the cutter on my Supermatic.

Warren: no SP's three layered contact wobble due to pressing handle up or down differently

If anything my TOM has more wobble due to a looser fitting crank shaft (the slightly offset three layer design is the same and a non issue in any case).

Warren: The lever which pulls the spoon...the shorter part
...is 4 mm shorter

If you look inside the Supermatic, the spoon base is retracted slightly beyond the tobacco chamber. I'd think that the extra space would help a bit when making 100's (its easy to get rid of by using a cabinet door bumper to increase the forearm length). All the forearm length does is determine where the retracted spoon stops...[and the hole spacing, i.e. the geometry, is identical]

Warren: The "cam"...is 1.5mm thicker on the ToM

Both my machines have 2.2mm thick cams.

Warren: The cutter is sharper and more polished/smoother on ToM

Only the top of the TOM cutter appears to have been polished, and its not flat as a result. The bottom (the side that counts) is worse than on the Supermatic.

Warren: The chamber bottom on ToM is the same black material as the outer chasis

The Supermatic folks take care not to get paint in the works (typically a good thing). The TOM has paint everywhere. In true Chinese fashion, where there's not paint there's rust (e.g. where paint didn't reach inside the chamber). There's also the typical paint adhesion problems (e.g. flaking paint where tabs have been bent). The textured paint may act as a lubricant and could be a good thing. It will be interesting to see how long it lasts.

Randy: One thing you got to watch though is make sure the 2 brass knobs on top stay tight

I thought those knurled knobs were great (no nut driver required) until I discovered I couldn't get the bolt part to budge (I did eventually), It was like they were press fit into place. Also both nuts on the crankshaft were locked on and a PITA to get off.

Denny: I replaced the bar in the Supermatic with the Top O Matic, and found a more reasonable result. The only problem is that the tobacco holds up on the Supermatic spoon.

How did you do that? The TOM cutter is a bit too thick for my Supermatic and the studs are a tad too big (the Supermatic linkage will go on but its too tight). I'm not sure what you mean by the last sentence.

Denny: I also tried to use the Top O Matic spoon in the Supermatic, and you can't! The cutter chamber tolerances will not allow it.

Almost identical spoons with the exception of the crimped area (and threads, you need to use a Supermatic screw to mount it) which is tighter/more ground down on the TOM...[yikes, Denny was right, the TOM spoon is a tad bigger and can bind in the Supermatic]

You probably haven't tuned your Supermatic. Linkage binding and cutter clearance are Supermatic issues because tolerances can be too tight. They are not TOM issues (it appears my concerns about grinding off too much of the linkage were unfounded, the cutter in the TOM ends up flush to the inside of the nozzle).

I need to spend time using the TOM before commenting on functionality.
[edits]

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Re: Top-O-Matic - What have you guys been smoking?: Posted by Kev on Saturday, 19-Nov-2005
The quality could vary from day-to-day too. I don't have a TOM but my Supermatic I bought last winter is definitely built better than my Supermatic built about 2 years earlier. Same design of course but the first one must have been built on a Monday.

But then I like my cheap Excel. Almost a year old, never needed adjustments and I can stuff twice as fast versus my two Supermatics.
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Re: Top-O-Matic - What have you guys been smoking?

Posted by Warren on Saturday, 19-Nov-2005

> All brass colored parts (most at pressure and wear
> points) are brass, i.e. softer/weaker metal.

All the inside gear components on both machines are magnetic (thus some iron or steal), even though some appear brass colored.

> The Supermatic folks take care not to get paint in
> the works (typically a good thing).

On my SP, the cutter arc (between the upper & lower blade) was painted black and it was flaking. I scraped that paint away. On TOM that part was not painted, but the bottom of the chamber was, and it seems much of it has flaked off by now (which means I must have smoked those flakes:). I think I am going to sand off the TOM chamber paint, if I can get to it without dismantling it.

In any case, with SP, if I held the spoon with a tissue during retraction, I would see a kind of black residue on the tissue. No such residue with TOM. The SP black residue may be from the spoon shaft since it persisted after I had scraped off the paint from the cutter arc (which I initially though was the cause).

> Both my machines have 2.2mm thick cams.

I don't have a micrometer to get accurate figures, but using a strip of paper and bending it over the sharp edges (wihout taking either machine apart) then measuring outside, I get for SP cam (which is black) about 2mm and TOM about 2.3-2.5mm (the ruler doesn't have marking between millimeters, so this is a a rough range). Also, the SP cam edges are a bit curved, which could take off some thickness with my paper strip measurement method. I think the black cam with curved edges on SP vs sharp, light colored cam on TOM gives impression (that I had in my previous review) of much larger difference than what it is.

Also, of the main gear, the TOM has only the "lever complete" visibly thinner than the rest of gear. On SP, the "lever complete" seems the same thickness as the rest.

> If anything my TOM has more wobble due to a looser
> fitting crank shaft (the slightly offset three
> layer design is the same and a non issue in any case).

The 3 layers on TOM line up well, while on SP the middle layer protrudes. The small difference here does affect the gripper release time, since it gets amplified via levers by the time it reaches the gripper, i.e. fill on the filterless tubes is noticably different, depending on which layer causes the gripper release. It may be that on filtered tubes, one can't easily see the fill difference at the filter end or that spoon may push aganst the filter compensating for the difference. In any case, on TOM the three layers are aligned well below any noticable fill difference threshold (even though, as you note the lever wobble on TOM is larger, so any layer can be hitting the gripper release lever). With SP, I had to watch which layer hit the gripper release and had the best fill if I pulled the handle slightly up just before it hit the gripper release.

> The lever which pulls the spoon...the shorter part
> ...is 4 mm shorter

This may be affecting the leverage on the spoon. In any case, the start of the spoon move or the last part of its retraction have problem on SP -- the plastic back end feels stuck in the shaft. Lubricating the shaft and the plastic block at the end of spoon, does help for a short time. On TOM, start and end part of spoon move, and anything in between, give no resistance and I haven't had do any maintance on it (cleaning or lubricating; even though I did put some goo gone, just once when it came in, since that helped SP).

Whatever the specific mechanical cause may be, the SP had major cutting problem (a weak cutting leverage when chamber overflows with Sagamore), the blade/chamber bottom gunking problems with Gauloises and other similar moist stringy tobaccos, plus the spoon getting stuck on start/end parts of its travel, which are all entirely a non-issues with TOM.

The upshot was that I had to clean with alcohol & lubrucate SP every few days and had to stop using it with several types of tobacco or when making one or two sticks with samples. With TOM (except for the rubber pad and nozzle width, which both got resolved initially) no further maintance or cleaning was needed, any tobacco, overflows, one or two sticks... it all just works hassle and maintance free. The machine became a nonissue, while it was the center of attention with SP. Whether the conjectured mechanical explanations of the functional differences are accurate or not is entirely separate issue from the functional differences, which are perfectly obvious after a short usage.

I would be curious to hear your experience on the operational/functional aspects and what is your explanation of the mechanical causes. Of course, if your SP doesn't need any maintance & cleanups for months on end, and works trouble free with any tobacco, then there may not be any functional difference.

Since you have good tools to measure the nozzle widths accurately, what is the difference there? Also, do you have any suggestions on how to remove the left over paint on the bottom of TOM chamber? It got scraped off by the blade/tobacco in little strips, leaving the ridges with the paint still inside.

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Re: Top-O-Matic - What have you guys been smoking?

Posted by Dave L on Monday, 21-Nov-2005

The machines are mechanically the same machine. Any difference in function is due to surfaces and clearances. This applies to like machines (Kev and his two Supermatics) and TOM VS Supermatic.

I did knife scraping and magnet tests. There is no question, the TOM's brass colored components are brass. Magnets will work through/around the small brass parts and attract the steel they are mounted to. Use a small round magnet to target the small components.

The face of the Supermatic cutter is painted black and the Supermatic II has what appears to be a green plastic or epoxy face. I think that the idea is to reduce friction (it also prevents oxidation, rub the face of your unpainted cutter with a tissue). While its true that its poorly executed on the Supermatic (slight overspray on the top/bottom of the cutter), this is a feature and is not related to paint, or lack thereof, in the cutter/spoon housings.

The black residue you speak of is probably just metal and tobacco dust. An excessive amount would indicate surfaces not mating well, check the spoon for dimples and burs.

The maximum affect the alignment of the three layers at spoon arm elbow can have on release timing/tube fill level, is the distance that the layers are offset. If pulling the handle up at the end of the stroke makes a noticeable difference, it is not the alignment of the pieces at the elbow causing it.

The real/functional spoon lever starts at the knob on the handle and ends at the spoon arm elbow (the crank shaft is the fulcrum). All the short part of the spoon arm does is connect the lever to the load, changing its length affects neither.

If the mounting block on the end of the spoon is getting hung up on the guide, it probably doesn't have adequate bevels.

So far I've had to file the rivet on the bottom of the spoon arm elbow of my TOM because it was catching on the spoon guide. Another issue with my TOM is cam/linkage bind. The linkage is squeezed between the cam and the top of the machine causing noticeable friction at the beginning/end of the crank cycle.

The only stock nozzle I have is a Supermatic II which is .309" in diameter, my TOM nozzle is .305".

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Re: Top-O-Matic - What have you guys been smoking?

Posted by Warren on Monday, 21-Nov-2005

Thanks for the informative post & the pictures. Did you try using TOM for a pack or two? Try the tobaccos which gave your SII most trouble (if any; you may have already tweaked yours to perfection). Any difference? Here, with the non-filtered tubes it is a big practical difference between TOM and SP. (I may try tweaking the SP plastic block at the end of spoon, but that was just one of the problems. The main ones were the lower blade surface gunking and the blade/leverage weakness in cutting through Sagamore natural on chamber overflow.)

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Re: Top-O-Matic - What have you guys been smoking?

Posted by Dave L on Tuesday, 22-Nov-2005

The number one problem is gunk buildup on the bottom of the cutter. Leverage is a constant, its the increased friction (load) of the gunk that makes it harder for the cutter to do its job.

There's less cutter clearance near the spoon. As gunk builds up on the bottom of the cutter, the clearance gets smaller and the friction greater. If you let the gunk build up long enough, the cutter will jamb.

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Re: Top-O-Matic - What have you guys been smoking?: Posted by Tim S. on Tuesday, 20-Dec-2005
It could be I got a really great tom, and a really bad blue supermatic. But the tom I got works great, I done about as many ciggs with both. I had to clean the blue supermatic 4 times, and had to take my time a lot more with it. I cleaned the tom never, and cut my speed in 1/2 with out worrying about messing it up.

I used the same tabbco's in them both, and the same tubes in both of them. But I used the blue supermatic in the summer, and the tom in cooler weather as was said above. I can say the tom is much better, as it moves smoother and jams alot less. It cuts the tabbco better, and when it got jammed the tom unjammed. With out having to clean it all, I just pushed the tabbco out with some plastic and kept going.

The tom was cheaper as well, and I feel the tom works much better. The rubber doesn't bug me at all, I think one of the things that helps the tom be better. Is that it does not get much tabbco inside of it, the supermatic gets alot of tabbco in it.
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Posted by JD on Thursday, 03-Nov-2005

Has anyone tried stuffing 100mm tubes with this thing yet? I have no problems at all with my PS on the king setting--stuffs kings *great*--but it isn't all that hot at the 100's; after a couple or three good taps, I end up with the equivalent of a king-size stick with a 100mm's filter....

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Posted by Denny on Friday, 04-Nov-2005

Actually the Top O Matic is a little better! I stuff 100's exclusively, and always have trouble making a consistently full 100 mm cigarette with either the Supermatic, or the T.O.M. , but the T.O.M is much more reliable as in getting consistent and closer fill to the end of the tube than the Supermatic. The unfortunate problem with both of these machines is that they are primarily designed to make king's.
I would try to tune the release timing to the last possible mm before tube release ( please refer to the machine section about the tube release adjustment) this method works for both machines.
I have been using the Supermatic since July 05, and I am on my 2nd cutter, my cigarette adjustment mechanism broke, and I just had to order my second loading spoon. I am not too impressed with replacing parts all the time with the Supermatic. I really think that the machine tolerances need to be more exact, or at least consistent.
Although I only owned the Top O Matic for 1 short week, I can't remember the Supermatic working as flawlessly right out of the box!
In the near future I will be writing a review between these two machines. Please keep in mind that I do not represent any tobacco company or corporation, as I am a MYO guy just like all of us here on this fine site and I appreciate that we all can express our viewpoints and findings for the benefit of all MYO people.
Denny

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Posted by JD on Friday, 04-Nov-2005

Yes, you're right about the compromise required to accomodate three sizes...maybe one of these days we'll see a dedicated 100mm cranker.

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Posted by MyFaceFrozeThatWay on Friday, 04-Nov-2005

Wanna make perfect 100's with either a TOM or Supermatic? Set the selector, obviously. Then overstuff the ends; I overstuff the ends about an inch and a half from the ends toward the center. Then simply fill in the center normally & don't forget to use properly dried tobacco! After tamping I get a smoke with only about a 1/16th" from tobacco to tube end. Enjoy!

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Re: Top-O-Matic: Posted by MyFaceFrozeThatWay on Friday, 04-Nov-2005
Make that about 3/4 inch from both ends towards the middle for a total of about and inch and a half.
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My newTop-O-Matic

Posted by Mary on Saturday, 08-Oct-2005

I just bought a Top-O-Matic yesterday. It works so well. I had been using the Supermatic II prior to this...which I thought was good but compared to the Top-O-Matic it is a toy.
I even paid less for the Top-O-Matic.

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NewTop-O-Matic?

Posted by David Wilson on Saturday, 22-Oct-2005

Would someone please take several pictures of this Top-O-Matic (top and bottom for comparison)cigarette machine and post them so the rest of us that cant seem to find any other information or photos anywhere.. I understand that Lil Brown is selling them,($34.00 sounds good) but there's no picture and very little information on the machine..
.. Thank's Allot ..

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Posted by Warren on Sunday, 23-Oct-2005

I had posted earlier few photos at: http://tek1.ezpeer.net/TOM/ (this is a server on my desktop computer, so it may not be always on).

For the unit on the photos I had already taped on a little cardboard box (as a tobacco tray, which I also have on the Premier), so it looks a bit kludgy. Basically, it looks nearly the same as the Suprematic Premier, with few key improvements (better cutter, sharper, stronger metal & tighter fit, also, a thicker metal for the main gear components), which make quite a bit of practical difference. Basically, I haven't had to do any maintance in these months since I got it and it works smoothly with any tobacco you throw in. No jamming or moisture problems. With Suprematic, I had the blade gunking problem with moist tobaccos and also difficulty cutting on chamber overflow, especially with rough cut tobaccos (such as Sagamore Natural).

It did add couple problems, the main one being the stinky rubber pad (intense rubbery smell which doesn't go away, so I got rid of it and it actually simplifies the use since I don't need to open it to blow off tobacco dust, it just falls down onto the tray) and a slightly wider nozzle than Suprematic. The latter problem makes difference on some filterless Excel tubes (of which I still have a two dozen boxes of 500 tubes each), which were difficult to fit onto the nozzle quickly. I sanded-off some diameter off the nozzle and it is now fine with these narrower Excel tubes.

I also noticed a strange side-effect of the difference between the two machines: while stuffing with Suprematic Premier, my thoughts would invariably converge on how one might improve the injector design. With Top-o-Matic, after the initial tweaks (for rubber pad & nozzle width), I haven't thought about improving injectors at all. It is basically hassle free, whether you're making cartons or just one or two sticks at a time to try some blend sample.

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Posted by David Wilson on Sunday, 23-Oct-2005

Thank's Warren..

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Posted by Denny on Sunday, 23-Oct-2005

Hey Warren Where can you get spare parts for the Top O Matic. I noticed that Lil Brown is the only on line store that sells it, and I was wondering if Top O Matic provides a parts list, and a web address like CTC does for their parts? I would like to study their parts list before making the plunge!

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New Top-o-Matic, first impressions

Posted by Warren on Sunday, 23-Oct-2005

They have a part list and an order form similar to Suprematic. The most expensive part is the cutter $8.20, the rest is below $3.5, screws & nuts .20, various gear pieces from $1.80 to $3.00. Only the nozzle and its base are not replacable parts.

They don't seem to have web page for ordering, just the order form (with part pictures & numbers), postal address and ask $7.50 for return s&h. They also have a phone number for parts & repair: 1-800-288-8888, fax and email: topomatic@rptob.com. The warranty is one year.

Before buying I was looking for their web page and couldn't find anything. They must be an old style company. Let us know here should you get the machine, how is your unit working. I would be curious to know whether they have dealt already with rubber mat stench and nozzle width problems (hopefully they read this site, it's the only place where the unit was reviewed and discussed).

---------------------------------------------------------
PS: I have no connection of any kind to them or to anyone else in MYO/SYO or tobacco business. All I wrote here about it is from the end user experience and perspective.

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Re: NewTop-O-Matic?: Posted by Matt on Monday, 24-Oct-2005
Rollyourown.com also sells the Top-O-Matic for $36.99...a couple bucks more than Lil Brown, but rollyourown.com accepts money orders. (for those of you like myself who don't use a credit card.)
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Posted by Warren on Friday, 26-Aug-2005

The new Top-o-Matic machine just came in and after making the first pack (filterless Excel tubes & mostly American Spirit original blend tobacco), here are the first impressions. ToM is a very close clone of Suprematic Premier. Internally it seems to be an exact Chinese replica of SP, just from eyeballing it, the parts may well be interchangeable (like SP, the ToM has the part-list diagram and the parts can be ordered individually).

On the up side for the ToM, its blade seems sharper and better fitting with the chasis & guides, resulting in smoother operation, especially with the two tobaccos which always gave me trouble on SP, the Sagamore Natural and the Gauloises. The sharper blade worked well with overflowing chamber, I couldn't feel any extra resistance due to cutting (SP has problem with Sagamore on overflow). There was also no visible gunk on the blade, maybe it is a different blade material (SP gunks up the blade with Gauloises). The spoon & the spoon guide appear identical to SP's and after few cigarettes I did a light q-tip swab with Goo-Gone on the back of the slider (where plastic slides against the metal), which made the spoon sliding perfectly smooth in both directions (as it is already with SP which had a Goo-Gone treatment). The main crank gear pieces seem to be a bit thicker, better fitting to each other, yielding a firmer compression and cutting. The tube gripper release appears more predictable (no SP's three layered contact wobble due to pressing handle up or down differently).

On the down side for the ToM, the chasis has more sharp edges, and is less curved, less pleasant to grip or handle than SP. There is an extra metal seam between the upper and lower chasis components, which is a bit cheap looking shiny metal with sharp edges, definitely not an improvement in look or touch. The worst aspect of ToM was the rubber bottom, which, while fitting nicely, had an overpowering and long lingering rubber smell (the SP's rubber has no smell that I can tell). I had to remove it and work without it (I left it on the deck to weather next few days, maybe the sun & wind will drive out the smell -- any tip on this??). It is not a kind of smell one wants anywhere near, in space or time, the nice tobacco smells.

In short, for this initial little batch, the ToM seems to function better than SP, quicker, more forgiving with the chamber filling and easier, more steady and predictable to crank. The SP looks and feels better, more elegant and classy machine, from the outside. For the next few days, I will use the new ToM as the main machine and see whether its functional edge holds over time. Maybe the whiff of the cheap Chinese metal-work it emanates will wear out, too.

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Posted by platoslostdialogue on Saturday, 27-Aug-2005

Thanks for the review, Warren. I've been pondering what machine to purchase as a backup for my Excel and this was most helpful. I do have a question for you though; must you inject king size smokes on the 100 mm setting to get a fully-packed smoke, like (supposedly) with the Supermatic? The only machines I've fussed with are my own Excel and my buddys Supermatic II, which seemed to crank out inconsistent smokes unless you had a really good feel for it (which I was actually better at than my friend). Anyway, thanks again.

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Posted by Warren on Saturday, 27-Aug-2005

I had used "king size" setting on the Top-o-Matic (the same as on the Suprematic Premier) for the 70mm Excel filterless tubes. I also filled few filtered tubes (Rizzla, king size). They all fill up fine with Top-o-Matic & Suprematic, in both cases better than those made with Excel machine (which I got for backup & travel).

It may be that those who need 100mm setting for king size tubes with Suprematic may have the machine slightly misadjusted or they may prefer tighter packed cigarettes. I like cigarettes with less compressed tobacco for easier draw (and for less carbon monoxide; very tightly packed tubes give me a headache after while).

I made couple more packs, using half a dozen of different tobaccos, with ToM since the post above. The machine is definitely faster and easier to crank than the Suprematic Premier. No blade gunking at all, even with moist tobaccos (I do use an old credit-card to swipe the excess tobacco as the blade pulls back).

The sharp edged metal-work isn't that bothersome any more once the hand positioning is adapted to its edges. The only problem left is the rubber bottom, which after a day on the deck, still has an intense rubbery smell. Not sure yet how to get rid of that (it is still perfectly usable without the rubber bottom when used inside plastic tray). Maybe some oil or powder can cover the smell.

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Re: New Top-o-Matic, first impressions: Posted by Kev on Saturday, 27-Aug-2005
Interesting. I may have to add one to my collection. If it's so close of a knock-off...wonder if a patent lawsuit will follow? You might try soaking the rubber mat in soapy water for awhile. I get recall notifications from a government website and there's a lot of recalls on Chinese made products (non-food) with chemicals you wouldn't want to ingest.
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Posted by Tim Aydt on Saturday, 27-Aug-2005

Try running the base through the dishwasher a few times. I had the same problem with something in the past. I just can't remember what it was or how I fixed it, but solution was something mundane like running it through the dishwasher or tossing it in with a load of clothes and then running it throught the dryer.

As for patent suits, I have a feeling that Top has acquired the rights to make it. I can't imagine that they would wait until a international, multi-million dollar corporation bought out tiny CTC, and then infringe on the patent rights.

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