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Tube related discussions (Jan '06 - Oct '06).

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15, 17 mm filters Vs. 20 -22 mm filters?
Posted by Captain U-96 aka Mike on Wednesday, 11-Oct-2006

Is the difference worth the hassle? I've used various 15--17 mm filtered cigarette tubes, and have been happy. In fact, I settled on El Rey Full Flavor tubes, because they are good! I discovered the old 17 mm Vera Cruz tubes, and took a liking to them, because they seemed to let me get a better taste of my tobacco.
Having tried some of these 20 mm tubes; I find myself with a much larger overhang. While I first trim off most of the excess to use in the next smoke; a lot of tobacco finds it's way to the tray. This excess I'm sure is going to be an issue with some folks who don't like waisting tobacco. Further, I'm not up to wrenching on my Top-O-Matic, or shortening the spoon to cut my losses! If it ain't broke--don't fix it!
I'd be curious to hear other people's thoughts on the subject of filter length.

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Re: 15, 17 mm filters Vs. 20 -22 mm filters?
Posted by Dave L on Thursday, 12-Oct-2006

I see your point. For folks not interested in light/mild flavor, the longer filters are an inconvenience. On the other hand, shortening the spoon can be beneficial with any tube that has a filter longer than 15mm.

I also don't see how you waste tobacco. The last smoke I make is my cleanup smoke. If there's not enough tobacco left to make a smoke, the cleanup goes into a jar to be made into grab-bag smokes later... how much tobacco I have at cleanup time is unaffected by filter size.

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Re: 15, 17 mm filters Vs. 20 -22 mm filters?
Posted by Captain U-96 aka Mike on Saturday, 14-Oct-2006

You have made my point for me. I have an old Bugler Gold can in which I put all the clippings that didn't make it into the smokes. Though I have not recently sampled the contents of my "secret recipe" blend; the point I attempted to make is that that tobacco gets taken out of "production"! Using 20mm filtered regular tubes adds to the tobacco that makes it to the tray; even with trimming off the overhang prior to tamping. I make my cut over the pile on my machine that I'm working out of, or directly over the chamber prior to loading. Though I haven't tried any of my can'd cuts, someone stoled the last can I had almost filled. And, since they didn't bring it back--I take it must have been a fair smoke to say the least! I'll try it your way when I make em by the pack. Generally, I make just one at a time; either blending enough for one smoke or using straight out of the bag!

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Re: Tubes
Posted by JD on Wednesday, 09-Nov-2005

Seeing as how there seems to be a preponderance of stores that sell MYO/RYO products that also insist on carrying peculiar scented products and candles along with incense and such, I'd really like to see tube boxes cello-wrapped to help keep these "fragrances" from infesting the tubes. Every retail outlet in my area (and that's only a couple or so, unfortunately) sell this other stuff, and it's almost become totally necessary for me to order my tubes to keep away from it, which is a shame....

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Bad Tubes- Lil Brown?
Posted by denali on Friday, 29-Sep-2006

Has anyone else had problems with bad tasting tubes from Lil Brown?   Anyone ever had really bad tasting Tops or Zen tubes?

I just recently got my order, with a variety of brands and sizes of tubes (Premier, Top, Zen).   The Premier are the worst, but all the tubes taste horrible, like soapy, nasty glue, and the awful taste just lingers for HOURS.   I accidently left a couple of the Top tubes in a bag of tobacco overnight, so that tobacco is basically ruined now too.

I can't stand the smell of incense shops, and I noticed all the tube boxes smelled of incense.   I called, and Lil Brown said they keep their tubes in a separate room from the incense... they don't know what might have caused the problem... and they are very sorry, but they refuse to give any credit for these tubes. Aargh.

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Re: Bad Tubes- Lil Brown?
Posted by Warren on Friday, 29-Sep-2006

Although my main tubes are Excel non-filtered (only D&R has them presently), I ordered couple boxes of filtered Zen tubes from Lil Brown with my last order so I can offer a quality cigarette to friends or fellow smokers sharing some dorway or curb.

I rechecked them and there is no smell of any sort at all, from the box or from the tubes. Prior to the last one, a package with Premier tubes I got from them via UPS came in smashed with a crowbar and most tubes in the two Premier boxes were ruined. But there were no extraneous smells in that package either.

The only place I got soapy/perfumy smelling items was from the Custom Blends. Luckily, only their own tobacco (few sample baggies) was contaminated and one pouch of Look Out. I had to dump all of them and clean thorughly the injector since it passed on the sticky smells to everything else. The canned tobacco was unaffected. In a later order, I ordered the last couple pouches of Black Death tobacco they had (no one else seems to sell it any more) and that was luckily fine, too.

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Non-filtered Tubes
Posted by Striperman on Wednesday, 06-Sep-2006

Newbie here. I know that Excel non-filtered tubes have not been manufactured since 2004. Are there any non-filtered tubes being manufactured? Has anyone heard of any rumors that any tube-maker (CTC or others) may start producing non-filtered tubes again? Do you think it would be worth my time to contact the sellers in the "Retailers" section to inquire of them if they may still have a few boxes of the old Excel tubes available for purchase?

Any information/opinions would be greatly appreciated!

P.S. - Great site. I really appreciate the multiple opinions expressed by the forum members.   

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The top 100 mm tubes
Posted by Jay on Friday, 25-Aug-2006

I've done some research in RYO mag as well as on the D&R site. I notice there are several tube brands at D&R. Unfortunately, most of them are regular tubes (which I assume is another term for king-sized tubes) D&R has a few 100mm tube brands. Aside from Premier 100mms (the tube I started out with and I still have an extra carton of these tubes), I notice the only other noticeable 100mm tube they offer is Zig-Zag Full Flavor 100's.

If there's anyone out there who prefers 100mm tubes like myself and has been smoking MYO's longer than me, which 100mm tube works best with the Supermatic (other than Premier 100mms)?

Although most dudes prefer smoking kings, I'm used to smoking 100's. Even when I was smoking premades for years until recently switching to MYO's, I always got premade 100's. I did try a stuffed menthol once made with a king-sized filter. Although the cig tasted good to me, I still didn't like the feeling of holding a king.

I wish there were more options for 100mm tubes at D&R. This MYO shop seems to be the best one out there for king tube selections. I certainly like their long list of tobacco brands.

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Re: The top 100 mm tubes
Posted by Kev on Sunday, 27-Aug-2006

The spouse likes 100mm light tubes. I guess I've by stuffing for about 3 years and the best I've found so far are the Zig Zag 100mm light tubes. The alternative is the Premier tube which has a quality control issue with an ever changing tube diameter. There's just not much choice in the 100mm tube market.

I use a Supermatic for stuffing but like king size personally. So I flip the switch and stuff my favorite blend in Gizeh Charbon tubes. I use to smoke 100mm but since a SYO king will burn about the same time, I switched. Another reason was the non-existence of any inexpensive, decent cases that hold 100mm SYO diameter tubes. If only Smoky would make 100mm cases too...

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Dense filter vs filter perforations vs micro-perforated paper vs charcoal.
Posted by Kat on Tuesday, 01-Aug-2006

My husband and I are ultra light smokers trying to convert to over to myo. We have been experimenting with several different tobaccos with Premier light 100 tubes but the main problem has been that no matter what tobacco we use they are just too strong.
I've been researching tubes thinking this is probably the problem and see that light tubes can be either dense filter, filter perforations, micro-perforated paper or charcoal. I'm really not sure how these all compare.
Can someone help me out? Which of these makes a lighter smoke? Any suggestions for a light tube for an ultra light smoker? Thank you!

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Re: Dense filter vs filter perforations vs micro-perforated paper vs charcoal.
Posted by Joe on Wednesday, 02-Aug-2006

You may want to try different types of tobacco... Some are much liter then others. I like McClintock light with Escort tubes... D&R aslo has liter types of tobacco as well Windsail light and Windsail Platium for example.

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Re: Dense filter vs filter perforations vs micro-perforated paper vs charcoal.
Posted by Wazmo Nariz on Wednesday, 02-Aug-2006

What sorts of tobacco are you trying? Like the other poster stated, tubes are just part of the eqution. But no one in the MYO market makes ultralight tubes, so you'll never replicate premade ultralights exactly (which isn't really a bad thing). You would probably do better with a tube such as Zig-Zag Lights, which have filter perferations, in conjunction with a tobacco like D&R's Windsail Platinum which is very tasty yet quite mild.

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Re: Dense filter vs filter perforations vs micro-perforated paper vs charcoal.
Posted by Kat on Wednesday, 02-Aug-2006

Thanks for your suggestions.
We've tried Rave varieties, menthol, menthol light, D&R's -Rowland, Rowland light, Windsail Platinum, Wingate varieties, Penhooker light, McClintock, (didn't try the McClintock light) couple other off brands from the local store. We've tried several blends and so far my husbands favorite seems to be Rave menthol light blended with Rowland light. Maybe we are having a tougher time because we're trying to make a 'menthol' light.
I tried some of the Zig Zag light tubes and they are indeed quite light but I still haven't found a combination that works for me, maybe it's just time to quit(again).
Thanks again.

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Re: Dense filter vs filter perforations vs micro-perforated paper vs charcoal.
Posted by Dominick Versetto on Thursday, 03-Aug-2006

Personaly, I don't like the perforated tubes.

I find that Premier light 100mm tubes to be very light. The thing I don't like about them, or any 100mm tubes for that matter, is that my TOM, and Zig-Zag pro, leave a half-inch or more empty at the tip of the stick.

The 100mm light tube from Premier does have a longer filter than the king tubes. This makes for a very light smoke.

dominick

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Re: Dense filter vs filter perforations vs micro-perforated paper vs charcoal.
Posted by Kat on Thursday, 03-Aug-2006

Dominick, I had the same problem with my TOM but I found out if you pack the tobacco in the corners (right to avoid the void near the filter and left to take the tobacco to the end of the stick) and fill the middle like normal there will be no voids in the stick. Truthfully it may still not fill to the very tip of the stick but no more than a quarter to an eighth of an inch. I also found moister tobacco tends to fill to the tip better.

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Re: Dense filter vs filter perforations vs micro-perforated paper vs charcoal.
Posted by Jay on Friday, 25-Aug-2006

I thought using moist tobacco is actually a bad idea, since the moist tobacco would clog up the machine when I pull the lever on my Supermatic. I never tried light tubes of any kind (Premier Light tubes included), so I can't really comment on stuffing my tobacco in a light tube. From what I read so far (on the tube forum topics), there's no perfect light tube out there.

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Re: Dense filter vs filter perforations vs micro-perforated paper vs charcoal.
Posted by Kev on Wednesday, 02-Aug-2006

My wife smokes ultra-lights. I've got her hooked on ZigZag light 100 tubes and Penhooker Light tobacco from D&R.

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Re: Dense filter vs filter perforations vs micro-perforated paper vs charcoal.
Posted by kristi on Monday, 07-Aug-2006

I, too, just started down this path. I was a camel turkish jade lights smoker. I wasn't trying to replicate that smoke, but went into this thinking that I could find a better quality tobacco and of course save money. I have tried several, and so far my favorite is Rayo Light tube. Really is a light tube. Tried the gizeh charbon, still trying to use those up, and they dont turn me on with those little black pieces that occasionally seep through. At first I was set on a menthol tube. Of course there are no light menthols anywhere. For a little while I was making my own little pin pricks at the end of the filter to make my smoke lighter. I do not do that anymore, I think it was just my transition period to realizing that the right tobacco was smooth and I didn't need to pull so hard on the filter like I was used to.

And after goofing around trying this and that, my favorite will probably end up being Iceberg with a pinch of Windgate Light blended and stuffed into a Rayo light tube. Happy experimenting. I think its kind of fun. My husband thinks I'm nuts.

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Menthol Light tubes?
Posted by kristi on Thursday, 13-Jul-2006

.
I'm sure this has been covered before, but ...

Are there any? I can't find them. I have just started making my own, and I'm very disappointed in the filters. The ones I have tried - Rayo light, premier menthol - the filter is too short for my liking.

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Re: Menthol Light tubes?
Posted by Trish on Wednesday, 26-Jul-2006

Kristi, You are not the only one, I've been looking for a menthol light (wishfully 100's) tube also to no avail. I've done extensive searching on the internet and really don't think anyone even makes them. Maybe it's time to write them manufacturers and ask them to consider making them.

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Mascotte Tubes
Posted by Shep on Tuesday, 27-Jun-2006

I'm searching for a good tube, and I was wondering if anyone has tried these, or have any info about them? I read somewhere that these have a shorter filter than most, which if true, I'd like to try. Thanks for the input.

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Re: Mascotte Tubes
Posted by Dano on Tuesday, 27-Jun-2006

I tried a carton of the Mascotte tubes. The filter seems to be the normal size for ryo. I just looked at one and the filter seems to be the same size as in the Rizla that I use.

They appear to be made in Germany, they are well constructed, they have a big M logo that's as about as clear as most tubes (as in not very), they come in a nice green box :)

I got them from D&R for some dirt cheap price and as such I'd say they were ok but they didn't want me to stop using the Rizla FF nor do I think they are quite as good as the Zig Zag FF.

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Re: Mascotte Tubes
Posted by Hey Pocky Way on Thursday, 29-Jun-2006

I've been using Mascotte Menthol tubes for the last couple of years. They are high-quality and consistently sized. Never had any problems getting them on the nozzle of my Supermatic Premier. They are made in Holland, not Germany. Another thing I like about them is the boxes come wrapped in cellophane. Plus the little fleur-de-leis printed on the tube is great!

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Re: Mascotte Tubes
Posted by Jo on Tuesday, 04-Jul-2006

I like the Mascotte tubes a lot. One thing I figured out about them is the celophene keeps the glue trapped in the box. The first carton I opened the cigarettes had a strange taste, almost a menthol or metal taste, but I learned to take the celephene off a day before rolling.

I use the light, but also like the regular.

I like a mild cigarette. I like a lot of the others, but most of them are too strong to smoke all the time. Right now, I have found that either the regular or light mascotte tubes with three sails, windsail or penhooker work for my daily cigarettes. They never make me cough or irritate my lungs. Three Sails is my favorite tobacco.

I was surprised at what a difference a tube can make as I learned my way around stuffing my own. The heavier tube paper tastes bad and the really light ones are harder to put on the cigarette machine.

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Re: Mascotte Tubes
Posted by Matt on Sunday, 06-Aug-2006


Mascotte are crap! The paper is so flimsy that it doesn't support where the tipping paper meets the tube paper; filter void or not. I've had a box of these set aside for a few months and upon revisiting them, nothing has changed and they still taste like cardboard / rice cakes.

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Best 100mm Tubes?
Posted by Evan on Thursday, 13-Apr-2006

Hi Everyone,

I'm new to the MYO thing, and I like 100's. I've started with the Premiers and Gambler Tobacco, and I find that while it's so much better than the pre-mades I've been smoking, I am tasting some paper. So far, I've found that Zen & Zig-Zag makes 100's, but would like your recommendations and info on who else makes 100's. Thanks Everyone!

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Re: Best 100mm Tubes?
Posted by Dano on Thursday, 13-Apr-2006

I don't smoke 100's but Zig Zag makes one of the most neutral tubes on the market. I like Rizla tubes (but I don't think they make 100's) and if I can't get Rizla i'll use Zig Zag which honestly I find equal in quality.

I've never tried the Zen tubes but my understanding is that they are pretty much like the Premiers. Premiers are really low end cheap tubes. If you smoke them long enough you're going to taste the glue too. You'll think you came down with the flu :)

Top and Gambler make really decent light tubes (i assume their FF Tubes are equally as good) and even Bugler makes a semi decent tube now days. If any of them make 100's i'd try those.

See if you can get a small pack (100 sticks) and try them out and see which you like best.

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Re: Best 100mm Tubes?
Posted by Evan on Thursday, 13-Apr-2006

I just noticed I posted this in the Tobacco section...Ugh! Sorry everyone!

Thanks for the info on the Zig-Zags! I think I'll try those next. Too bad I bought 20boxes of Premiers, maybe I'll just keep these around for back-ups...

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Re: Best 100mm Tubes?
Posted by Kev on Friday, 14-Apr-2006

I stuff Zig-Zag light 100's for the spouse. They have the most consistent diameter. Premier light 100's seem to vary with about 10 different diameters - they are too loose for the Supermatic or too tight.

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Patriarch Tubes?
Posted by David Wilson on Friday, 28-Apr-2006

Has anyone tried the Patriarch FF or Patriarch Light tubes that's being offered through Smokers Warehouse? I've never heard of them, and was just curious..I have a few of each coming with an order and will leave a post afterwords..

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Windsail Cigarette Tube
Posted by Denny on Monday, 24-Apr-2006

Hi Wanted all to know that I tried D&R Windsail tubes. They seem to be the most neutral in flavor, bringing out the true tobacco taste. I have tried Premier, Zig Zag, Top, Gambler, Rizla, Sixty1, Ramback and others. I find that for my tastes a Windsail tube and McClintock menthol make a great cigarette. Next time you order from D&R, you might want to try this tube.

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Re: Tube News
Posted by mark on Sunday, 05-Mar-2006

dear myo fans,
as an advocate and participant in the myo and ryo segment since 1992, i have been a part of this evolving market in both tobacco and tubes. i understand that the pace of change in recent years has been unsettling and has created a sense of uncertainty. additional and significant trends and changes are ahead, and as your readers have indicated, consolidation among the tube manufacturers has already had an impact. to put an element of the current situation in perspective, in 2002 we purchased (1) rizla and club from rba, (2) elrey from fred stoker, and (3) premier, escort, rayo, filterite, excel, and century from ctc. we now buy all these products from one company, rba. (btw, post-imperial acquisition, note that all new machines have the "premier" logo). all ctc papers (economical) were eliminated first - escort, rayo free burn, rayo rice and rayo hemp. although we still have a considerable inventory of legacy tubes, we count eight brands (from ctc) that have been discontinued from production (not to mention all the private labels). other dramatic changes from major myo/ryo players are coming. republic is moving big in the tube segment and it is hard to predict where they and rba are ultimately headed. "light" tubes have also gone through a rollercoaster of availability and styles over the decade and a half. once dominated by the ctc style aquafuge permeable paper in the 1990's (ctc brands and private label, e.g., zigzag, etc.), the emergence of elrey light and the enhanced availability of silvertip light (gizeh)around 2000 shifted many consumers over to familiarity with light tubes with perforations on the tipping paper. upcoming new options for tubes include longer filter elements and higher density filter plugs. as evidence of continued change, our latest elrey light tubes have a coarser paper and no tipping paper perforations and the premier menthol tubes no longer have the menthol crystals in the filter plug. looks like manufacturing locations are also changing so look forward to new facilities and start-up issues. in contrast to the ostensible demand by consumers for a longer filter element, it appears that trends in some national brands are toward shorter elements -hard to believe, but time will tell. many of our formerly 17mm element tubes look a lot like 15mm to me. your readers know about the changes at peter stokebye company, but this is just the beginning for changes among tobacco companies. (mostly msa related so i won't bore you with details). much more to tell but i've gone on long enough. call if you have any questions. by the way, don't give up on myo/ryo. d&r and other small companies have exciting plans for the future. thanks to all our customers and hope you do not mind my sharing my perspective.

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Re: Tube News
Posted by slap_maxwell on Monday, 06-Mar-2006

Thanks for the info Mark. As someone who's purchased more than my share of your fine tobaccos over time, I'm always interested on your take and insight.

It seems to me that tubes are the big question mark in the MYO sector; quality seems to vary wildly from one batch to the next and certainly from one brand to the next; and to tell you the truth, I'm sad as hell that El Rey Lights are likely to be the next to slip down the ladder quality-wise, as they've been the one constant I could always count on. I hope that the tube manufacturer(s) can get their act together and start offering us a quality product consistently and at a decent price-point.

But one question...give up on MYO? And go back to what, pre-mades? Hahahahahahaha! Not a chance in hell, Mark, believe me.... ;-)

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Light tubes
Posted by Dan on Tuesday, 28-Feb-2006

I am trying to find a light tube that will work well on a Excel. I tried ZigZags and they were way too light for me. I tried Rizla Lights because I like the Rizla FF. They would not stay on the machine. I tried Charbons which I like. When I first got the Charbons i tried out a couple and they had big filter gaps I figured it was a new bag of tobacco and it was just to moist. But when it dried enough it would work fine in the Rizlas but still left big old gaps in the Charbons way to much to just pack down. This frustrated the hell out of me.
Any ideas?

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Re: Light tubes
Posted by Mike on Tuesday, 28-Feb-2006

Read the El Ray and Silver Tip forums on this site - seems these are favorite light tubes.

Someone noted that El Ray may not be the same quality now as it's 'made in Canada' versus the previous 'Made in Germany' product.

Me, I'm a newbie, going to try D&R Tobaccos with a couple of El Ray and SilverTip tubes based on this sites input.

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Re: Light tubes
Posted by Kev on Wednesday, 01-Mar-2006

My everyday tubes are Charbons stuffed on an Excel. Yes, I do have a gap close to the filter but this gap is within the brown filter paper. But since the real filter is so short, this doesn't cause a problem for me. It does leave more of a gap than the ZigZag 100s I stuff for the spouse on a Supermatic. If you have a larger gap you might try packing the left side a little tighter on the Excel.

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Just filter tips
Posted by Phil on Tuesday, 21-Feb-2006

Hey guys, I just got into rolling my own cigarettes, and looking at all my options, I still really like the idea of rolling your own cigarettes with nothing but your hands. However I am indeed a dork and I rather like filters on my cigarettes. It seems possible just to buy filter tips and put them into a hand rolled cigarette in place of a small amount of tobacco at the end of a paper. But I have no idea how to roll one into a cigarette. Is it hard? Do you leave the filter sticking out of the paper or place it directly into the paper? Do you roll it with the tobacco or simply stick it in when the tobacco is all rolled up? Which filters would work best with menthol or pipe tobacco? Which papers would hold the filter and tobacco in place the best?

Also, if it does turn out that i suck at rolling my own, is it possible to attach a filter to a cigarette in a hand roller?

Any help is much appreciated and this site is the best thing since sliced bread for all tobacco help and needs.

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Re: Just filter tips
Posted by platoslostdialogue on Tuesday, 21-Feb-2006

I also started rolling my own with filters when I first started buying loose tobacco. I don't know if you can find them, but I used the Rayo brand 20mm filter plugs and they seemed pretty good. There are also slimmer plugs available now I believe. It's kinda hard to roll in by hand with a filter, at least, it was for me. Can't speak for everyone, but I think the best thing to do if you want filtered RYO is to use a hand roller. Not as cool, but a little more practical. All you do is stick the filter in one side of the roller before you fill it with tobacco, and then follow the rest of the steps as usual, while holding a finger over the filter to prevent tobacco from getting between the paper and the filter. As for papers, I like Zig Zag orange. Theyre not cheap but widely available. The bambus seemed good too but I dont like the way theyre creased down the middle. All I use these days for rolling, however, is the "free" American Spirit %100 flax papers that come in tubes or pouches.

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Re: Just filter tips
Posted by Kerry on Tuesday, 21-Feb-2006

I never rolled a cig by hand without the aid of a small rolling machine, so I can't say how hard it would be to do it strictly "by hand" or free-hand.

However, using a small rolling machine you can easily add a filter tip. The trick is to get just the right amount of tobacco so that the cig is properly packed and also holds the filter in place. Sound simple, but it can take some practice to make perfect rolled cigs with the filter inserts.

I always placed the filter tip in the roller at one end so that it was completely wrapped in paper when done.

A rolled as opposed to an injected cig does have a different character and rolling often allows you to use tobacco which is not suitable for stuffing. But, for the sake of convenience, consistency and quality, I use a SuperMatic. I have a variety of rolling machines and injectors, but my main machine is "big blue".

Hope this helps.

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Re: Just filter tips
Posted by Phil on Tuesday, 21-Feb-2006

Helps a lot guys, thanks a lot and esp. coming from two points of view you can get a lot of help and experiences. I'm also very surprised you guys responded so fast, this helps a lot. I'll try rolling it with just my hands but I thought I would get a hand roller just in case.

And just for clarification on hand rollers, i would put the filter in one end, then place in the tobacco in the rest of the open area, close it and roll it, then put the paper most of the way down, lick the rest, roll it in and continue rolling until its completely covered?

Again, thanks a lot guys

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Re: Just filter tips
Posted by Bob on Wednesday, 22-Feb-2006

Yes-you can place a filter on one end of the roller inside the paper & roll it that way-I've found it hard not to get highly /overly compressed finished cigarettes that way. Also, a rolling box is an alternative but I've found the same problem with such highly compressed tobacco its like sucking concrete through a straw, hopefully you can just use a regular injector & live a little easier- I use the priemer but also have back ups including another older priemer from e bay & a couple of roll boxes etc.......they seem to pile up over time! just remember "BE PREPARED!"

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Light tubes
Posted by arg54 on Wednesday, 15-Feb-2006

Got a friend looking to do the MYO thing, he smokes Parliment lights, tried a McClintock light tube and a Zig-Zag light tube , the McClintock tube seems ok has 10 holes in the filter, the Zig-Zag was too light has 15 holes in the filter, any other suggestions for a tube similiar to the McClintock? Would stay with it but it's not readily available in my area.
Thanks Rudy

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Re: Light tubes
Posted by platoslostdialogue on Wednesday, 15-Feb-2006

Rizla blues and Escort (discontinued) are my favorite light tubes.

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Re: Light tubes
Posted by Dano on Thursday, 16-Feb-2006

I tried the McClintock tubes awhile back and it seemed to me that after smoking a pac or so the paper taste got to you.

I don't know about all the holes in the tube etc. but like the other person that replied I would say use either the Rizzla Blues, Zig Zag or the Top Lite tubes are best.

You didn't say what tobacco you were using. I would guess that D&R's Venguer Light with a really light tube would be pretty close to a Parliament.

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Does a better tube exist
Posted by Edward on Tuesday, 07-Feb-2006

i am tired of rolling my own cigarettes and want to buy a machine, but it looks like my choices are far more limited in the tube market. i've grown used to using organically produced papers that are toxin free or hemp papers. is anyone aware of a company or brand that makes a more conscious tube? i also prefer to smoke without a filter. Do i have any options?

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Re: Does a better tube exist
Posted by platoslostdialogue on Tuesday, 07-Feb-2006

Try the Rizlas, they are chlorine free. Vera Cruz are supposedly "natural" tubes but I haven't seen any evidence of that. My guess is they are made of the same substance as blunt wraps. I also had this concern when I switched over to MYO from American Spirits. Spirit uses non accelerated, fire safe cigarette paper and I was afraid I wouldnt find a tube as benign as a Spirits. There are filterless tubes, though theyve been discontinued, but they don't taste as good as a hemp paper. In my opinion, nothing does.

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Re: Does a better tube exist
Posted by firestick on Monday, 20-Feb-2006

platoslostdialogue could not be more incorrect. There is no such things as naturally white paper. At best pure hemp is an off yellow if it hasn't been bleached. And not all paper bleaching is done with chlorine (oxygenation for example) but most is and it is done very early in the process. Almost no chlorine actually survives the subsequent paper manufacturing process except in the cheapest, lowest quality of papers (cigarette papers not stationery).

The Vera Cruz are not bleached. Since they are naturally brown they don't need to be. They have no similarity to blunts whatsoever. Blunts and other "tobacco" wraps have tobacco residue in the paper. Vera Cruz is the highest quality and most expensive paper ever used in a cigarette or tube. On the order of quality of Treasurer cigarettes which ran about $30 per pack. Where people like plato get this kind of information is beyond me. I guess they just make stuff up as suits their needs or agenda.

One other thing that might as well be addressed. D&R Tobacco creates every one of their blends from the ground up. They don't buy already "available" blends as most other companies do (sans Stokkebye). Their blends are nothing like anyone else's blends in so far as originality. Jeez, I don't know where some of you get this stuff. Thankfully most here have the good sense to use their brains and palette before they use their keyboard.

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Re: Does a better tube exist
Posted by Matt on Monday, 20-Feb-2006

& have the good manners not to flame.

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Re: Does a better tube exist
Posted by My FaceFrozeThatWay on Monday, 20-Feb-2006

;-)

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Re: Does a better tube exist
Posted by Matt on Monday, 20-Feb-2006

btw...is this the editor of a certain online publication with which we are all familiar?

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Re: Does a better tube exist
Posted by platoslostdialogue on Monday, 20-Feb-2006

[...] What makes them [vera cruz] natural? I don't know! They don't state. Exactly what information that I stated was wrong? I mean, rizla doesnt use chlorine, right? Vera cruz is "natural", yah? I just don't understand where youre coming from. [...]

PS: I love D&R.


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Re: Does a better tube exist
Posted by Matt on Tuesday, 21-Feb-2006


"I guess they just make stuff up as suits their needs or agenda."

...how delightfully ironic.

" We have been encouraged to do a Forum type discussion group, but with the size and diversity of our audience, it would likely become an uncontrollable blood bath. Let's be clear here. We get almost no negative mail but, opening up a high visibility site like this to the fanatics who lurk out there, would require so much monitoring that it would quickly become what most forums become - a pissin' contest."

...who came here & dropped trou?

"...but as a writer I wear many hats."

...see 1st qoute above. I find it worth noting that I never ordered any tobacco online or bought a table top injector until I read the unpaid endorsements posted here by "fanatics".

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Re: Does a better tube exist
Posted by platoslostdialogue on Tuesday, 21-Feb-2006

There really shouldn't be any flaming on this board. It's one of the things I really like about it (that, and the fanatics). I think Dave Lers should remove my post and that of Mr. MYO mags. I wrote my response in the heat of the moment, as I assume the MYO guy did and quickly realized I couldve worded it more... constructively. We don't need "pissin' contests".

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Re: Does a better tube exist
Posted by Dave L on Wednesday, 22-Feb-2006

I was tempted to do something earlier but decided to leave it alone. I appreciate your followup and hope the edit is OK.

I really wish we could get more input from folks in the know. With a shortage of facts, sometimes all we can do is speculate. It could be the very speculation, that firestick could help to reduce, that set him off.

There are posts that sound wrong but I don't have the knowledge to post a factual reply. In this particular case my thought is that only the Rizla blue's are chlorine free. They are a unique tube in more ways than one and I see no reason to assume that all Rizla tubes are chlorine free.

The "non accelerated, fire safe cigarette paper" also bothers me. I've done some very crude tests and it seems to me that all tubes burn at pretty much the same rate (much faster without tobacco than with). I don't see how the paper, at a tiny fraction of burnable volume, can have any affect on the burn rate of a cigarette.

I don't think firestick realized how savvy some folks are. For those that don't understand the likely connection between firestarter and RYO Magazine, its the email address and knowledge of Vera Cruz tubes. Firestick's email address is at a site owned by the editor of RYO Magazine. Someone recently pointed out to me that Doug (the owner/editor of RYO Magazine) owns the Vera Cruz trademark and I noticed that he also owns the Vera Cruz site. Doug's connections to Vera Cruz bother me because, TTBOMK, he has never stated his involvement.

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Re: Does a better tube exist
Posted by platoslostdialogue on Wednesday, 22-Feb-2006

Straight from American Spirits website, "fire safe" cigarettes.
http://www.nascigs.com/Pages/FAQ.aspx#QA14Space
Spirits are the only brand I've known (MYO included) to go out if left unattended. That is, unless my tube is stuffed with some super moist tobacco.
Thank you for pointing out those most interesting facts, Dave. And yeah I didn't assume the Rizla reds were chlorine free until I heard a poster mention it. Sort of a "well, makes sense to me" thing.

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Re: Does a better tube exist
Posted by Art on Wednesday, 22-Feb-2006

Dave thanks for making what in my opinion was a good call. Opinions, are what I believe that is what a forum is all about. We do have the time and the editing capabilities to re-read and make corrections to our posts. I do think that many readers here look at this site as a relaxing smoking outpost, a place to learn to get a better smoke. Mr. Firestick could have better expressed his knowledge on this matter to better educate. I've read many an opinion here, tried some posted methods, adopted a few, dismissed some too. But like a controversial news subject, this brings out the readers. Thanks again Dave this is a really great site.

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Re: Does a better tube exist
Posted by Matt on Wednesday, 22-Feb-2006

As Art has mentioned about editing posts; I will concede that it was "delightfully ironic" that I wrote some of the things I'd said after I'd already posted about manners & flaming. However, I've enjoyed reading some of the past postings from plato & to see him insulted by one who it would seem should have more of a sense of decorum just kinda rubbed me the wrong way. I didn't mean to instigate or create a tense situation, but I would've expected more from the suspected poster & at the time had to jump on it.

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Re: Does a better tube exist
Posted by Dano on Thursday, 23-Feb-2006

I assumed that firestick was Doug over at MYO Mag simply because of the email addy not to mention the authority of the input. He's got another endeavor music/fingerpicking or whatever.

Hey, I love his ezine and didn't necessarily view his post as a flame. Be that as it may my 2 cents about does a better tube exist sounds something like this....

The Vera Cruz is a very classy looking tube. I'm not so sure how they will hold up as an everyday tube since I've only used them from time to time, that's to say i've never actually smoked a full pac of cigs made with those tubes.

It's my opinion that you generally can't judge a tube by smoking just one (Unless it's a Premier Tube which unfortunately tastes like a brown paper bag from the get go:) But after 5 or 6 Vera Cruz's I kind of got the impression it was a little harsh. That could have been just me being tired or whatever. But my big objections to these tube are....

1. They the highest priced tube on the market and although it's cool looking it's not especially manufactured very well. By that I mean the boxes I have all have have dimples, ripples around the area of the filter. It's like the machine that rolled them was out of wack. It's not a Major flaw but for the price, it shouldn't happen.

2. The printing on the tube is essentially washed out like most other tubes.

3. This whole Vera Cruz printed down the length of the tube is like some kinda Pimp Cigarillo thang :) I mean, this is MYO Cigarettes not some kinda Cubano Leaf Rolling Culture :)

4. They don't come wrapped in cellophane!

If you ask me what is the Classiest Tube on the market i'd have to say the new Rizla Cigarette Tube. It's well constructed, tastes totally neutral, the printing on the tube is Vivid & Clear and it comes wrapped in cellophane! (Did I mention it costs less? :)

Vera Cruz (in my opinion) would be a hell of a lot better if they got rid of the brown paper, kept the filter and it's 3 bands and used white paper below the filter with a clearly printed, smaller Logo and shipped wrapped in cellophane.

It's cool as it is but it's certainly not worth the premium price they charge for it.

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Re: Does a better tube exist
Posted by Captain U-96 aka Mike on Wednesday, 11-Oct-2006

While I agree with what you are saying; I should mention that the New Vera Cruz Nocturne seem to have been watercolored. Never the less I still enjoy them, except for the excess tobacco overhang. I may well yet go back to El Ray and Gambler tubes. I have a friend who makes his own stationary, and it sure isn't white!
I have never tasted tobacco as good as D & R's! Mark Ryan's tobacco has opened up a new chapter in the RYO-MYO community! Now, everyone has the chance to be a "Connoisseur" and a Craftsman by designing their own blends; to their taste.

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Re: Does a better tube exist
Posted by scott johnson on Wednesday, 11-Oct-2006

If you have serious tobacco overhang, either use a cigar cutter, or a pair of sharp scissors to trim them off. If you smoke a lot of them, a paper cutter might even work to do a bunch at once.

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Re: Does a better tube exist
Posted by Captain U-96 aka Mike on Wednesday, 11-Oct-2006

I use a short cigar scissors/trimmer. I'll generally try and leave about 1/8 inch overhang prior to tamping. To be clearer; I trim than tamp the tobacco down one or two taps.

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Newbie needs help with my first purchase
Posted by Empty420 on Thursday, 29-Dec-2005

I'm just starting out with MYO. I was thinking of getting the new rizlas because of the long filter. They sound to be very thin though, I wan't a tube that is as wide as a packaged cigarettes. What brands are the closest? Any help would be usefull.

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Re: Newbie needs help with my first purchase
Posted by G on Thursday, 29-Dec-2005

Rizla Cigarette size are actually a little wider than regular filtered cigs. The standard MYO king tubes are noticeably wider still. The Rizla cigarette size is as close as you can get AFAIK.

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Re: Newbie needs help with my first purchase
Posted by platoslostdialogue on Friday, 30-Dec-2005

There is another brand of tubes that are slimmer than regular king size tubes. I remember reading a post on this board kthat said that Sixty 1's were way too tight to fit on an injector. I saw one box of them on a shelf at a local shop and decided to pick them up, along with a box of bugler tubes sitting next to them. You may want to try them out, but unlike rizlas, they dont have offset seems or full cicumference glue. Rizla also tastes the best to me.

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Re: Newbie needs help with my first purchase
Posted by Dave L on Friday, 30-Dec-2005

The Rizla 'cigarette size' tubes are currently the only tubes that are supposed to be smaller in diameter. Tubes from other manufacturers that are too small to fit on a standard nozzle are the result of poor quality control, not intent.

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Re: Newbie needs help with my first purchase
Posted by platoslostdialogue on Friday, 30-Dec-2005

I guess I should've clarified my statement. These tubes are obviously, intentionally slimmer. Also, on the box it states they are for use with the Maiker hand injector and it has a little picture of it. I'm not sure what company makes these tubes, but they probably had the same kind of idea as rizla. It says they are made in the Phillipines and has an 800 number.

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Re: Newbie needs help with my first purchase
Posted by Dave L on Saturday, 31-Dec-2005

Sixty-One and Maiker are Nationwide Tobacco (/Pacific Stanford) brands. While they are saying 'use our brands' (just like Premier and others do), there was/is an issue with Sixty-1 and Maiker tubes being smaller in diameter. TTBOMK they have never been advertised as being intentionally slimmer.

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Re: Newbie needs help with my first purchase
Posted by Empty420 on Thursday, 29-Dec-2005

Thanks for the info I'm going with the new rizla. They had a deal on them to.

Now I have to find the closest tobacco to camel filters. I regularly smoke Camel 99's so if any of you past 99 smokers have been down the same road, please point out some tobaccos that you liked.

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Re: Newbie needs help with my first purchase
Posted by Rob on Friday, 30-Dec-2005

My best advice is go to
http://www.cigarettetobacco.com/
after reading Doug's evaluation at http://www.ryomagazine.com/tobacco.htm
and then "get er done"

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Re: Newbie needs help with my first purchase
Posted by Matt on Friday, 30-Dec-2005

D&R is THE place to go. You may find it a little hard to navigate at first & you will definitely find it hard to make up your mind as there are so many tobaccos to choose from. The Rizla+ "cigarette size" kit is $7.95 + includes the injector, 200 tubes & a cigarette case. http://www.cigarettetobacco.com/newprod.htm

As the gentleman in the post below suggested, start off small & work your way up from there. (Words to the wise.) Can't agree about D&R blends being copies though.

About Camel 99's...couldn't tell you & most likely no one here can. I can't recall when the last time I bought a pack of cigarettes was. You're sure to find a better replacement if you stick to MYO.

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Re: Newbie needs help with my first purchase
Posted by Denny on Friday, 30-Dec-2005

Yes I must agree with Matt D&R is one of THE places to go, also you might want to try the Sagamore tobacco line from www.ryotobacco.com Both my Wife and I use this tobacco, as it does not have any overbearing toppings added to it like some of the other bulk tobaccos have.
I bought my wife and I a pack of our old G.P.C brand cigs for a Christmas gift (yea I know a lot of you are now saying LAST OF THE BIG TIME SPENDERS) Any how I used to smoke the menthol lights. Well I lite one of these babies up, and damn near puked! Well I coughed so hard I damn near puked. I haven't smoked commercial cigs since August, and what a surprise! I don't think I will ever try that again.
It is difficult to find your exact match, and you will make some bad choices, at least most of us did! So don't be afraid to jump in with both feet, and get wet. Buy small samples try them blend them, and find your holy grail of tobacco, it will enrich your life and you will learn a whole new lifestyle.
As our local Chinese Restaurant says ENJOOOOOY

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Re: Newbie needs help with my first purchase
Posted by Art on Saturday, 31-Dec-2005

    Oh yes, All of these tips are good ones. Especially the tip on the crank injector. I'll bet you already have the Rizla hand injector. Good for you. My first injector was the Rizla special, tubes and hand machine in a box. Had a great deal of fun and frustration with the learning curve. Tobacco moistness content is probably the most important and then the proper amount to stuff or tamp into the chamber. You can dry tobacco faster than you can rehydrate it. But both can be done as is written about here. In the meantime try smoking moist/dry tobacco to taste its different characters and try different amounts of tobacco stuffed into a tube that too results in a different smoke as folks have written about. I did not like the idea that I could only buy one type/brand/size tubes for the injector. Now my Rizla sits only as back up. I have made smokes with it using regular tubes. They fit a little looser and therefore don't stuff as well. Months later I bought a premier super II. Used it for about two weeks took it apart, cleaned and oiled it as per recommendations. So now I'm in the market for a backup crank machine. Not that I have any problems, just like the idea of having a back up. I only make a day's worth at a time. If it broke it would put my habit in jeapordy until I could get another. I could run down and get a regular sized hand injector until a crank injector arrived.
    A lot of what you'll find here is opinions and it's up to you to find the smoke you like. That's why most people will not recommend you a smoke. They write their opinions on tobacco, greatly appreciated. But I think everyone here knows what opinions are like after all we're smokers. Here is a hyperlink to american thrust tobacco , http://americanryo.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=CTGY&Category_Code=RYOSAMP
They sell one ounce sample for $1. I've heard good and read things from people about them but I've never delt with them. Folks like the idea that they can get an ounce to try before they get the pound. That's what MYO and smoking is about, choices. What we think is enjoyable may as well be as enjoyable to us as we can get. I really love this site and check it daily for great information. In fact I consider it the hands down make your own bible. But go ahead and dig down deep into the tobacco reviews and you'll see what I mean. Some people are absolutly crazy (love) about a tobacco and others consider it trash. To each their own. Good luck and happy smoking whatever it may be, please let us know. Our opinions are important here.

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Re: Newbie needs help with my first purchase
Posted by Matt on Saturday, 31-Dec-2005

To quote Art..."Had a great deal of fun and frustration with the learning curve. Tobacco moistness content is probably the most important and then the proper amount to stuff or tamp into the chamber."...absolutely. The one upside to ever owning a hand injector for me was learning how much was too much, jamming it with shake particles, & how moist was too moist. If I hadn't learned this from using a rinky-dink hand injector I might've had a problem in the beginning with overstuffing my crank injector. You might want to try out a small sample of a blend you know you won't like and overstuff the hand injector deliberately just to learn how much it can tolerate the varying degrees of tobacco. (moisture, shake, amount used). It will really help if & when you decide to go for a crank injector to know ahead of time.

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Re: Newbie needs help with my first purchase
Posted by Art on Friday, 30-Dec-2005

Welcome to the exciting world of make your own. I think it is generally thought that the best part is starting out. I've spent much time reading most of the posts on this site and many write about the best part being, not smoking what they used to and the variety of tobaccos and their flavors. I usually have about 4 different types of tobacco. I use the old mint tin for packs. I blend or mix a little and have made some great smokes of my own. I don't think I've smoked the same type of tobacco since I've started to make my own over a year now. I agree with many that with so many tobaccos out there, why try to replace what big tobacco sold us. Remember you get what you pay for and you can tell a difference. Try to get pouches or samples to try. Getting stuck with a pound of tobacco you don't like is no fun. It has happened to us all. Especially when we buy one type and then try another and the second is so much better. I live in an area that is somewhat remote. I have one tobacco store nearby. I don't think the owner smokes and he and his wife do not speak very good English so I do get help from the posts on this site. I have found that some folks tastes are a little lite for me. I have since become accustomed to a stronger smoke. I have asked for the same advice here and   have never gotten a clear answer to a tobacco question. Other than try some D&R tobacco, which like being a fortune teller is usually good advice. But there is more out there and D&R for the most part only copies what others have made or make. If your question does not get answered in the first couple of days, it's usually not going to get answered. Well good luck and again welcome.

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Re: Newbie needs help with my first purchase
Posted by Dave L on Friday, 30-Dec-2005

Remember that the only, out of the box, injector you can use with these tubes is the Rizla hand-held injector. Crank injectors are significantly faster and easier to use.

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Re: Newbie needs help with my first purchase
Posted by Matt on Friday, 30-Dec-2005

Not only faster and easier to use, crank style injectors make much better and more consistent smokes. When I first tried using hand injectors they were so frustrating I gave up on using injectors and went back to hand rolling for several years. Once I finally got a Supermatic my whole outlook changed. (Not unlike my attitude toward premades once I discovered I could roll my own.) You may have to get used to a wider diameter cigarette but I think you'll find it worthwhile in the end.

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Newbie Help
Posted by Dano on Tuesday, 31-Jan-2006

Just my 2 cents.
There are only 2 tubes you should be using. Either the Rizzla (red box) or the Zig Zag. (both called King Size). Personally I would go with the Rizzla since it's chlorine free paper and i'm not sure the Zig Zag is. But, if you can't get the Rizzla then by all means use the Zigs cause they are quite good also.

As for tubes like Premiers (which if you read MYO Magazine touts them as good tubes beware!), they are inexpensive and they taste like you're smoking a shopping bag. You can taste the glue. I would have to say they are the worst tubes out there. Other tubes i've tried that I recall are the Gehiz (sp) which were fair, McClintock, 61 & Maiker? all of which were better than the Premier but worse than the Gehiz, that's to say... a waste of money :)

But that's just my opinion.
You get what you pay for.

Stay Frosty!
Dano

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Re: Newbie Help
Posted by platoslostdialogue on Tuesday, 31-Jan-2006

I agree that Rizlas are very good tubes and Premiers are very VERY bad tubes. There are some premiers out there have offset seams now and taste a little bit better. The red box doesnt advertise chlorine free paper (like the rizla lights do) but I assumed that was the case when I first tried them. I'm just always surprised there isnt more talk of these fine tubes on this board. But everyones tastes are different.

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Re: Newbie Help
Posted by MyFaceFrozeThatWay on Tuesday, 31-Jan-2006

Just came back from my local shop, where I noted they had put out a few redesigned boxes of Premier Light king size tubes. Picked up a box just for grins, and it appears that the tubes are being made by someone else. This is the first box of Premiers I've purchased where all the tubes seem pretty consistent. As for the Ultimate Test, there is a definite lack of "papery" taste in this batch. Still no full circumference glue, however.... Even burning, and still using the micro-perf paper.

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