Archive 3
General tobacco discussions (Feb '07 - Mar '07).
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- A few thoughts
- Posted by Clarence walker on Saturday, 10-Mar-2007
Fortunately, today we are blessed with improvements in transportation and communications that were simply impossible in the past. However, along the way some of the very forces that have made all of this possible have sometimes led to a level of homogeneity in which quality is sometimes secondary to the facilitation of manufacturing and distribution at the most competitive cost. This is at once a good news/bad news scenario. For example during one recent trip to Europe, where I basked in the history and diverse cultures, I also saw the rapidity with which plasticized American food and other franchises were cropping up even in the most historic of villages. Whatever the market will bear can sometimes lead to whatever the market will tolerate. As a prime counterpoint, witness the explosive growth of micro-breweries now offering alternatives. Fortunately, there are many other examples all around us, lending testimony to one of the most fundamental principles of marketing, namely that the will of the customer will drive the market.
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I truly believe that this is now beginning to happen in the field of custom made cigarettes. We haven't seen anything yet, and I will dare to say that in the future there will be incredibly fine varietals of tobaccos with names and recognition that are just as well recognized as for instance a Merlot. It wasn't that long ago that wines meant red or white jug wines for many. However, the recognition of the delicious tastes of the varietals soon followed, as the appreciation of blending. This required public exposure to better wines as well as some degree of public education. Even in that industry there were years of domination by the prohibitionists which was inevitably overthrown by the will of the marketplace.
It may seem a stretch to some, but I can well envision a common growth curve fueled by the desire for something better in the realm of fine tobaccos. Trouble is, today most don't even know there is a choice and for the few who have tried to roll their own, they have all too soon be met with the over-the-counter jug wines of tobaccodom. If with Roll Your Own one ends up with a harsh and hot smoke, why bother?
These producers of inferior blends are shooting themselves in their own feet, when anyone with any marketing savvy could consider the new paradigm of becoming industry and marketing leaders with GREAT tobaccos for a HUGE new market!
As regards the education function, this will require making the public aware of the differences between sub-par tobaccos and good tobaccos. All Virginias are NOT the same, nor are all Burleys, Balkans, Turkish, Periques or other varieties. Even in this I recognize that I myself am mixing varieties with processing methodologies. Just as with a Bordeaux from Bordeaux, versus a generic Bordeaux, there IS a difference. As regards tobaccos, a Virginia Bright grown in one country may be totally different from a Virginia grown in another. I have yet to see anyone really break down all of the families/varietals of tobacco, much less clearly delineate the countries of origin and how they impact the flavors, or how the curing even further defines them. When one gets into the Periques, Latakias and many other tobaccos defined by their curing or other processing, things become even more interesting.
To even further exacerbate the newcomer, most now offer blends with proprietary names and cased (sugared or otherwise flavored)tobaccos with names that tel the buyer little about what they are actually getting. Truth be told, it is in the recognition and understanding of what to expect from a good Virginia, Burley, or Turkish tobacco that serves as the basis of truly experiencing the taste, flavor and aroma experience. More reputable blenders recognize this and readily supply information regarding what is in a blend.
Too, there are other factors in making one's own custom cigarettes that directly impact the enjoyment and understanding. For example, when enjoying a good Cognac one doesn't pour a huge glass, but pours a smaller amount into a snifter to enjoy the color, bouquet and many nuances of flavor. If one puts a full rich tobacco into a huge tube as with an injector machine, they may well get too much of a good thing. This is true with several tobaccos. Sometimes, as in the cognac analogy, less is more and a thinner smoke made with a roller may enable the smoker to better enjoy the subtleties. One side benefit that I have enjoyed with custom made smokes is that I no longer smoke nearly as many cigarettes as there is so much more satisfaction realized when I do smoke.
Another side benefit has been the enjoyment of a broad range of my own blends based upon the time of day, mood, or desire for a different experience, such as my dessert blends, some of which might have more Cavendish and others that might have more burley, more Latakia, or more Turkish. In all, I no longer have the congestion, am no longer subjecting myself to countless additives, and the house no longer has that omnipresent stale reek.
Ultimately, the benefits of custom made cigarettes will make themselves known and the general public will recognize and appreciate the differences. My hope is that those in the industry will continue to make the whole process easier and more understandable. With today's incredibly simple rollers and just a few "user-friendly" blends suggested by vendors with an interest in developing longer term repeat clientele rather than over-selling and confusing buyers with today's plethora of machines, rolling papers, and inferior tobaccos all will be better served.
Ultimately custom made cigarettes are to be enjoyed and the simpler this process can be made the better for all.
- Re: A few thoughts
- Posted by Smokin n Jokin on Saturday, 10-Mar-2007
Very profound and probably spot on except for a couple of issues.
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#1. Time. Most people value their time more than they do their money, and would pay for premades no matter what they cost instead of spending their time making their own.
#2 I think you will see vendors disclose what their blend ratios are, what kind of tobacco they use, where it came from, how it was cured and what kinds of toppings and casings were used when Colonel Saunders publishes a recipe for the 15 secret herbs and spices, when Coke tells you what they put in Coke and McDonalds gives you the ingredients for the secret sauce.
- Re: A few thoughts
- Posted by Clarence Walker on Sunday, 11-Mar-2007
I think that you are right about the toppings and casings. However, I was referring more to those blenders who concentrate upon the finer tobaccos and do not use toppings and casings, while concentrating more upon the use of selecting and blending premium tobaccos.
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It is very difficult today to find the basic varietals themselves, especially those based upon the very finest leaves. Here I am referencing a 100% pure, fine, flavorful Virgina, Burley, Turkish. The better distributors are doing this.
I support such an effort because it is hard for people to recognize and appreciate one varietie's characteristics until they can try a basic unblended representive. However, having learned those characteristics, one is better able to learn and experiment with blending.
This is why I would love to hear from others regarding best sources for these "best of breed" unblended varieties such as D&R for an incredible VA and the pending releases of Turkish tobaccos from Balkan Prospect. Even within those varietals, there are the subtle difference based upon the locations grown, curing, and sub-strains.
One might say that I hope that this might serve to light a fire. Imagine a distributor who creates a line offering pure, unblended, uncased premium tobaccos and actually provides informative descriptions about those factors that make each unique. This would be an incredible resource and the basis for a lot of information, learning, and growth by those who are truly interested in blending.
Today, many a blending recipe is based upon "so much of this brand and so much of that brand, but very few upon the tobacco varieties. Interesting, as this ability used to be the foundation of learning the process of blending pipe tobaccos. Too, I think this would be an awesome tool in growing that part of the market that is waiting to be tapped.
On another track, I would welcome suggestions for what others would consider the perfect starter blend, i.e., something for beginners and newcomers. In my mind this would not be either the harsh, hot, dry, cloying stuff found in so many over the counter pouches! I would envision something fairly mild, very well balanced, a hint of residual sweetness, a cut that is easy to work with, a proper moisture level, a good aroma and taste that is easy on the tongue. Good, smooth, enjoyable, but not the BIG tobaccos with tons of punch.
Another need is for a proper rating system, much like those followed in wine tasting that would be readily understood and reflect upon some standards that all could use. My intial thoughts would be harshness, aroma, taste while smoking, aftertaste, hotness, cut, color, source of origin (country and region/state. For example just because one purchases a Virginia bright flue cured leaf tobacco, how does that rank against others from the same variety? What are the characteristics and how is the quality when measured against others from there or say Carolina?
This is just a starting point. [link]
- Re: A few thoughts
- Posted by Kerry on Monday, 12-Mar-2007
Don't kid yourself... There is no tobacco available TMK that doesn't have one or the other or both when it comes to toppings and casings. The semantics of product description can be misleading.
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I am not saying that toppings and casings are all bad, but they are all present. The very nature of tobacco leads to the use of casing and the limited scope of flavors leads to the use of added flavorings. One of the most popular tobaccos noted on this site, McClintock Virginia (discontinued) was more topping/flavoring than tobacco for taste. It was/is very good, but nobody should kid theirselves that they love the "tobacco" in it. The flavor comes almost totally from the additives. This is true for all of the Stokkebye related blends.
D&R is not additive free. American Spirit is not additive free. To my knowledge, no SYO tobacco is additive free if you include casings AND toppings/flavorings either natural or otherwise.
One problem with having tobacco which has no casing (or very little casing) is that it requires more care and attention (regulated humidors, etc) to keep it in top shape and most folks won't do the necessary and will be unhappy with the results.
In any case, as the SYO market grows some of the things you and I would like to see will come to be. However, with the increasing exposure will come the higher taxes...
- Re: A few thoughts
- Posted by Pete on Wednesday, 28-Mar-2007
I have to agree with you Kerry. I have worked in the RYO industry and the concept of producing and distributing a non-additive(casing or perservative), 100% turkish, burley, or flue-cured is a great idea, but there are several issues which are virtually insurmountable.
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As you mentioned, the time frames involved in distributing such a pure RYO would create huge problems because the entire supply chain cannot maintain such high levels of care. All freight trucks, storage warehouses, and retail stores would have to retrofit temperature and humidity controls for this pure RYO to arrive in the optimal condition.
As a result, you can imagine what would happen to the price. In the industry, there are true tobacconists such as Mr. Ryan, however, the largest part of the industry see a need for a cheap substitute for premades and price sells. Their sole focus is the bottom line and the bag of "over-the-counter" roll your own that now costs $12-20 per lb is what the majority of the market demands. In order to produce the proposed pure RYO the price would surely double if not more. Would you buy a $75 per pound tobacco even if it was the "real deal"?
- Re: A few thoughts
- Posted by Wazmo Nariz on Sunday, 11-Mar-2007
I'm sure that eventually more of a niche will spring up within the MYO community that will attempt to cater to those of us who have expanded our palettes beyond the simple transition from pre-mades because of cost to actually smoking cigarette tobacco for the nuances of taste, aroma and pleasure, much like the fine cigar and wine communities. It's certainly an excellent entrepreneurial opportunity for whomever might want to get involved, for sure.
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I'd love to find a local shop that actually makes an honest attempt to cater to such a community, but sadly most of them stock very little beyond the Bugler/Top/Gambler McClintock range and maybe a couple of brands of tubes. When I lived in London there was a tobacconist that used to carry tobaccos from all over the globe, and knew in intimate details everything about each one...the growing conditions, soil conditions and how it altered taste, etc. I learned a lot from that man, for sure, and miss such place here in America. The closest I've found to that intimate level of knowledge and caring is Mark Ryan at D&R.
As MYO continues to grow, hopefully so will the infrastructure ... .
- Re: A few thoughts
- Posted by Clarence Walker on Sunday, 11-Mar-2007
I certainly agree with your comments about Mark's helpfulness and knowledge. In so many ways this is directly along the lines of what I was addressing, especially your comments re, "When I lived in London there was a tobacconist that used to carry tobaccos from all over the globe, and knew in intimate details everything about each one...the growing conditions, soil conditions and how it altered taste, etc.". Thirty some odd years ago there was the term "tobacconist", i.e., one who knew and understood tobaccos, meaning the basic components, characteristics, et. al.. Back then I could visit my tobacconist and have input to create a custom blend, not by merely mixing brands, but by combining burleys, virginias, turkish, perique, Latakia or whatever. I haven't seen anything remotely resembling that thus far in RYO, but do believe the time is ripe. As said previously, this will mean the perception of demand and the associated mechanisms in place for buyers to understand tobaccos, the alternatives and drive the market. This, therefore, is why the interest in our developing the categorization schemes and definitions as well as the very language and terminology to communicate, such as when classifying, rating and blending tobaccos. This was essentially the standard among pipe smokers years ago and could easily be adapted to the custom blending arena. Clarence Walker
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- Re: A few thoughts
- Posted by Wazmo Nariz on Sunday, 11-Mar-2007
You're spot-on and I, too, would welcome a more precise categorisation scheme instead of depending upon generalities such as brands. Sadly, the marketplace being what it is at the moment, most of the MYO'ers who haven't yet fully explored what's available beyond their local tobacco shop (or the small handful of internet/mail order vendors) have no basis, or frame of reference, beyond the brands they're exposed to and the often vague and nebulous labeling by various suppliers. But that relative smallness is, like you mentioned, an opportunity for us to help it grow and expand in ways not possible with many other markets today.
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Doug Kennedy's e-zine attempted to extend the knowledge base and to expose folks in a general way to the many products and tobaccos available to them beyond the homogenised pre-made world. With the MYO scene growing, however slightly but steadily, many will naturally want to progress in their tastes and experiences...like the cigar, pipe, or wine aficionados before us. And having some sort of framework (for conveying what is, after all, a uniquely individual perception) that goes beyond "It's mild and not too harsh," or "Smells like old socks" would help people to decide if they're ready to ditch the store-boughts for what is undoubtedly a more satisfying, pleasurable and rewarding experience in the main.
- Re: A few thoughts
- Posted by Smokin n Jokin on Sunday, 11-Mar-2007
I guess I'm just not that picky about what I smoke. I can smoke Three Castles one day and King Mountain the next without it causing me all that much distress. I know what I like but I'm not fanatical about it.
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- Re: A few thoughts
- Posted by Wazmo Nariz on Sunday, 11-Mar-2007
Many people aren't all that "picky" about their cigs (and there's certainly nothing wrong with that), but I tend to smoke them more like some people smoke pipes or cigars...more for the taste and aroma than for just a nicotine fix or from habit. I've talked to a lot of ryo/myo "old-timers" who eventually tend to reach that level...granted, more so in the UK and Europe where ryo is far more entrenched in society in general than here in America (so far).
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- Re: A few thoughts
- Posted by Clarence Walker on Monday, 12-Mar-2007
Today's market for RYO/MYO is still primarily equated to being the lower class, lower economic strata that can only afford to smoke if they can purchase CHEAP tobacco. This view is still reinforced in everything from university/government studies to anti-smoking blogs.
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Meanwhile, most distributors overwhelm newcomers with a plethora of commercial pre-blends, rolling and stuffing machines, and papers that still heavily reflect the sixties influence and drug usage. Many a RYO distributor still reflects this with other types of smoking paraphernalia.
However, I very much believe that there is a HUGE market that is essentially left untapped. Unfortunately, this will continue to remain untapped with today's marketing thrusts, themes, understandings and approaches. A simple review of the vendors at the forthcoming show in Vegas only further serves to confirm this.
To open up this new market will require some totally new paradigms including the work of a few visionaries who can understand the opportunity. There is a vast untapped base of potential customers, but to reach these will require some recognition of who they are. Imagine for example a storefront and corresponding on-line thrust that conveys a lounge sort of atmosphere not too dissimilar from a Starbucks. Upon entry there must be fine tobaccos, a simplification of initial entry into RYO, a low entry cost and the ability to educate the customer while whetting their appetite. Complimentary products would support the lounge and relaxation experience a la many a fine cigar shop..and look at what people are now paying for cigars and how their popularity has swelled! Give the newcomer something that is easy to like, demonstrate how quickly a custom made can be prepared, have them smoke a few that will show the range from mild and smooth to maybe a little sweeter and more fragrant. Help them roll a few and allow them to relax a while. Review the range of tobacco types for future enjoyment. Send them out the door with an initial purchase that is guaranteed to work and easy to like.
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- Re: A few thoughts
- Posted by Smokin n Jokin on Monday, 12-Mar-2007
"Today's market for RYO/MYO is still primarily equated to being the lower class, lower economic strata that can only afford to smoke if they can purchase CHEAP tobacco."
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Don't you suppose that might be because that's what the market in fact actually is?
I think there may be a very small niche for what you are proposing but I seriously doubt that there is a "HUGE" market or a vast utapped base of potential customers. Good luck but I just don't think you are going to be able to turn the highly addictive habit of cigarette smoking into a connoisseurs venue.
- Re: A few thoughts
- Posted by Clarence Walker on Monday, 12-Mar-2007
Maybe it is my age, but I recall when tampa nuggets and such were the cigar of choice. Today, even in a tiny little town such as this, there is a cigar shop with a nice lounge where $5.00 for a smoke would be conservative. They always have customers. I have also seen nice pipe shops in lots of small towns and throughout the cities. Even for packaged cigarettes a considerable amount is spent daily. The potential is certainly there, but the public awareness and knowledge is not yet. However, there is already at least one franchise chain doing quite well and growing rapidly. Essentially, this would just require a little imaginative, creative rethinking, branding and use of the communications tools now available.
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- Re: A few thoughts
- Posted by Wazmo Nariz on Monday, 12-Mar-2007
The fact of the matter is, undoubtedly the myo/ryo community is certainly big enough, even now, to support higher-end cigarette tobacco; obviously it is, or there wouldn't be the Stokkebyes and such available. Even if you were to spend $40 to $50 per pound for high-grade tobacco, you're still talking about a carton of first-rate cigs, the type of which cannot be found in *any* premade, for far less than typical top-tier premade cartons almost anywhere in America.
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It's certainly not an "Us vs Them" situation, where you have people who smoke cheaper brands being derided by those smoking premium, custom-blended tobacco. It's more like being a car owner... . Initially you buy the cheapest transportation your budget allows for, and as your situation and income improves, you spring for more performance and luxury.
BTW, what is this chain you speak of?
- Re: A few thoughts
- Posted by Clarence W. Walker on Monday, 12-Mar-2007
Thoroughly agreed re the "us vs. them". BTW, I believe the franchise is 7Valleys. I have no commercial interest in them or in any other tobacco businesses, so I am totally neutral. However, both my degree and my career were in marketing so I am still fascinated when I see such an obvious opportunity. Sure, there will continue to be a demand for the dregs and the sweepings, but that does not equate to inordinately high costs for premium tobaccos. In fact, the cost for even the finest custom made cigarettes with the best of premium tobaccos is not that much greater. Too, most of which I have suggested has little to do with cost and far more to do with quality, education, communicating a message, having easily understood terminology, categorization of the tobacco types, ratings that actually quantify and qualify, packaging and thinking in terms of who this potential buyer would be, developing a clear message, and making the whole process of entry into the RYO/MYO/Custom made venue easier. By making that initial experience more pleasurable, the retailer could then be more assured that they will come back...as opposed to one big sale up front and then never seeing them again. The key is to have a clear message and deliverable and then getting that to the right audience. The rest was for us..the buyers.
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- Re: A few thoughts
- Posted by Smokin n Jokin on Monday, 12-Mar-2007
Even with high end tobacco like PS you can make a carton of cigarettes for around $13.00. If people could run down to the store and buy a carton of any kind of premade cigarettes for less than $20.00 a carton the RYO market would dry up within a week. I've tried to switch a lot of people over to RYO. Without exception they are all interested, and without exception they are not interestsed in making their own, but are willing to pay almost premade prices for someone to make them for them.
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- Re: A few thoughts
- Posted by Wazmo Nariz on Monday, 12-Mar-2007
I'm not sure that's true--at least in my case. If premades dropped in price tomorrow to $3.00/carton, I'd still never go back. :-)
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- Re: A few thoughts
- Posted by Kerry on Monday, 12-Mar-2007
I have had similar experiences with people asking me to make smokes for them after they try my SYO sticks. Of course, I decline to make sticks for them and point them in the right direction, but to my knowledge, none have taken up SYO and continue to buy pre-mades. Usually the very cheapest ones.
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I also agree that the RYO/SYO market would take a small hit if pre-made prices were to drop drastically, but I doubt it would be that big of a hit. Although price is the entry point for many, quality (for the price) keeps a large percentage.
I do wish that I could find D&R tobacco locally and I do blame D&R partially for this. The tobacco shops I talk to locally say that the "distributors" they use don't carry it. I have pointed them to the D&R site for wholesalers, etc., but never have been able to get a local shop to carry any D&R tobacco. Oh well, it is hard to get them to carry ANYTHING other than Stokers, Gambler, Bugler and TOP.
I have thought about opening a SYO tobacco shop myself, but I think the limited traffic for higher end tobacco would have to be supported by sales of pre-mades, cigars, and other higher volume sales items to make it a profit making venture. This is probably one of the problems with the current shops, except that they won't even "special order" the better quality SYO tobaccos, let alone stock them. Although, most do keep pretty expensive cigars.
- Re: A few thoughts
- Posted by Matt on Tuesday, 13-Mar-2007
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While I realize there is a large potentially untapped market, I really don't think that SYO is that much different than owning a pair of hair clippers. They'll always be there for you to buy, however, the determination is up to you. I know I was sick of paying & tipping a barber or "stylist" at Fantastic Sam's when I could just do it on my own. The sad truth is that most people are willing to jam their wallets up for the sake of not learning to do some routine thing they should learn to do on their own.
- Re: A few thoughts
- Posted by Smokin n Jokin on Monday, 12-Mar-2007
"Too, most of which I have suggested has little to do with cost and far more to do with quality"
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Therein lies the fallacy of your logic. The RYO market is driven 100% by price. Read the Stuffing your own forum. Not one person on there started stuffing their own because they were looking for a better quality product or a higher price.
- Re: A few thoughts
- Posted by Wazmo Nariz on Monday, 12-Mar-2007
Not 100% (it had nothing to do with it in my case), but your point is made. However, like any luxury item (which tobacco is, cigs or otherwise, unless you believe the Nanny State drivel about lifetime addictions and smoking itself being a "disease"), there is always room for upward trends in quality, service, availability, etc.
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I'm sure you'll find a great number of people who started MYO/RYO using the cheapest tobacco they could find who have gone on to other, more expensive types when they can--and would never touch the cheap "store brand" stuff again.
- Re: A few thoughts
- Posted by Smokin n Jokin on Monday, 12-Mar-2007
I agree with that, that was the case with me and I think that's probably the case with most who start stuffing their own. As much as I enjoy the variety amd quality of products available on the RYO market it was still price that drove me to look into stuffing my own. Not the price of tobacco, or the price of premades but my disdain for the ability of the majority to impose a discriminatory tax on a minority.
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- Re: A few thoughts
- Posted by Wazmo Nariz on Monday, 12-Mar-2007
Absolutely re: quality, standards of communication, etc. The tobacconist I mentioned earlier would actually teach you how to roll, how to use injectors, how to adjust and maintain them, etc. I have yet to find a similar experience here...most of the tobacco shops I've been to have clerks and managers who have no idea how to operate the stuff they sell, not can they tell you anything at all about the tobacco they carry, except for the price. The first store that opens within 100 miles of me that can do those things will have a lifetime customer and would most certainly have tons of satisfied repeat business since so many people give up on MYO after fumbling with equipment no one has bothered to show them how to use properly....
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- Re: A few thoughts
- Posted by Smokin n Jokin on Monday, 12-Mar-2007
Same here. There are about ten smoke shops here and if someone opened one and did any of those things they would put the others out of business in short order. The store where I bought my supermatic the guy told me, when I sell one of these I pretty much forget about it. If you have trouble with it you're on your own. The only thing he told me about anything was that I should be able to make a package of cigarettes in about ten minutes while I watch TV.
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- Re: A few thoughts
- Posted by clarence walker on Monday, 12-Mar-2007
Ahhhhhhhh! A point of agreement and the meeting of the minds.
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Most cigarettes shops have no concept of what they are selling in their own shops, most of which is old, old, old and covered with dust. They do not understand the equipment, the processes, the blends, or the tobaccos. Why should they as they are there to move prepackaged cigarettes. In the pipe shops and cigar stores its not too terribly different. Even some of those I spoke with on-line don't have a clue and couldn't begin to explain or make a recommendation.
There are a few notable exceptions.
Some might see this as mere complaining, but I see it as an opportunity! Yes, I actually began this road of exploration because I once enjoyed incredible tobaccos. Cigarettes used to be better and pipe tobaccos were incredible.
Many of the great varieties, brands and great outlets are largely history. BUT, in this unique realm of custom made cigarette tobacco there are a few who can recognize a market when they see one and are already making arrangements for great things, i.e., better tobaccos, better blends, better systems of distribution, etc..
In my others postings I have addressed a few of my other motivators such as minimal chemical additives, flavor options, actually smoking fewer cigarettes, cigarette size and length, filtration, etc.. But, without beating a well thrashed horse, I would welcome the opportunity to work with others to work on some commonly agreed upon needs that would benefit all. Too, I look forward to the day when tobaccos are classed as types, not just proprietary blends.
So as not to beat this to death here and infringe upon the courtesy of the host, others with such an interest can check out the link to my blog. [link]
- status of nightmare blend
- Posted by karen on Monday, 05-Mar-2007
I have lost count on the weeks I have been doing this now. Stuffed the last of the nightmare blend today, and it has actually turned out to be a "not so bad" smoke. I did however; the first week of this bad butt blend break down and by the dreaded pack of Marlboro's (which I still have over half a pack of)...I ended up putting smidgets of menthol in with NM blend and decided maybe tobacco is similar to food....I let it set for 4 days and blend..it worked. I did add to it twice with samples that were not so great. Have about 2 weeks left before its gone. I am proud to report that my converts and I placed major American Thrust order for bulk tobacco and machines...when this comes in all will have premier supermatics, or Excels. As for latest trials and tribulations...have experienced my first with chlorine tubes(zig zag) and still shopping for personal best tube, have on order silver tips, charbons, windsail, escort. Have favored Vengeur tobacco over everything but still ordered 1lb of American Thrust prem. light and 14oz bag of vengeur. My Excel is holding up well, did have to play mechanic, take apart clean and tighten a loose screw. I have gotten it down to stuffing once a week for the whole week. I am considering in near future ordering a supermatic (feel the need for a backup) and since someone posted about flipping that nut over, may be a do-able machine after all. Monatary benefits.....my cats and fish have food always, before this enlightenment I kind of suffered (not gone hungry by any means, but not the fresh stuff I really want) I am proud to report that area is changing. Its astounding how much actual money you save. Special thanks to smokin and jokin for all your input, advice and sometimes making me and converts laugh(but we listen and follow) and to everyone else who has given me suggestions and insights!
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- Re: status of nightmare blend
- Posted by scott johnson on Monday, 05-Mar-2007
You may find, as a lot of us have, that different tobaccos work better in different tubes. I've had tobaccos I didn't like in one tube, and try a different tube and like them. I don't know why, maybe differences in paper, filter length, etc. work better with different tobaccos.
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A second note: if you can't afford a supermatic, you might look into the Ultimatic. They are a bit cheaper, a "clone" of the supermatic, and can be found on ebay:
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From what i've seen, it's a decent machine from the reviews here. I have one now, haven't had time to review it yet. It looks like a good machine.
I also like the Venguer tobacco. I liked it best in a Windsail tube. Your tastes may vary though. Try it in all your tubes. Find a match you like.
sj
- Re: status of nightmare blend
- Posted by Smokin n Jokin on Monday, 05-Mar-2007
Hey Karen, glad I could help. Gizeh tubes are hard to beat, especially the Charbon, they'll even make that vinegar tobacco a tolerable smoke. I haven't been able to find them anywhere online yet but I also like Smoking brand made by Miguel Y. Costas. I buy them at a local smoke shop here. If you favored Thrust light over ANTHING you still have a looooong way to go. Actually it's not that bad. I was pretty impressed with it and their menthol too for the price.
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- Re: status of nightmare blend
- Posted by scott johnson on Monday, 05-Mar-2007
The Charbon tubes are available from American Thrust and from D&R.
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- Re: status of nightmare blend
- Posted by karen on Monday, 05-Mar-2007
I haven't tried American Thrust Light..yet. prefer Vengeur so far...my way of thinking...it can't be as bad as what I have been smoking...I hope. Its the price thing with me too, I figure like with everything else in my life I'm going to have champaigne taste on a beer budget..Vengeur is my fav so far, but its just not exactly what I'm looking for. Still learning, still not sure what "type" my taste buds are favoring as far as cures and tubes.
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- Re: status of nightmare blend
- Posted by jcat on Monday, 05-Mar-2007
try using tubes with the 20mm filters,ramback elite,3castles,or laramie mild etc.if you have'nt tried mc'clintock light you might want to give it a try.it was my crossover blend and not that spendy. gambler's not bad either for the price
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- Re: status of nightmare blend
- Posted by andrew on Saturday, 10-Mar-2007
If you call D&R you can order Vengeur Platinum which should be lighter than the regular Vengeur, which I like because it tastes very simular to a Marlboro, but the light and Platinum versions are probably better/more select.
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My latest order from D&R i got Windsail Platinum and SJ Rimboche, both light and fun to smoke.
- McClintock "SEALED" Virginia Pouch
- Posted by give me your cash on Thursday, 01-Mar-2007
Dear Injector friends and Hand Rollers, all....
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I have in my possession what SURELY must be the last remaining SEALED IN PLASTIC pouch of McClintock Virginia. When I first reported it was dry, I failed to notice that pouch was opened and marked "free" by the famous Mark Ryan. I have smoked it up except for this last priceless rarity, as cans are more common I'm sure and a few remain..but this sealed pouch!!! rarer than a baseball card from 1909. I am offering it up here first before I put it on eBay with a $500.00 reserve. Better hurry, some lucky SOB will jump all over it and you'll never see a pouch in original form again......mike c
- Re: McClintock "SEALED" Virginia Pouch
- Posted by Wazmo Nariz on Thursday, 01-Mar-2007
I'd take you up on it, but my local shop has tons of 'em. On special currently for $1.15 .;-)
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- Re: McClintock "SEALED" Virginia Pouch
- Posted by Helios Creed and Damon Edge on Thursday, 01-Mar-2007
hahahahahaha
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Morning Larry- I have to go out today, so you guys enjoy
ps-just for "worthwhile maybe" sake, Bugler tubes are now $3.99 a box at Discount Cigarettes where I "shop"?
rocket launcher time
your listener, and obviously full of "sh*t" person today
mike c
they have a new brand "Southern Cross", old price of 3, and a new tobacco by the same name.....probably (insert nasty word).....
- Re: McClintock "SEALED" Virginia Pouch
- Posted by Dano on Thursday, 01-Mar-2007
Rest assured you don't have anywhere near the last pristine Mc V pouch. I have many. They are not nor will they ever be for sale :)
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Although I promised never to sell them, IF you were to offer $1,000,000.00 for a pouch, I would call the person that I made the promise to to not resell them and see if they would make an exception for that one sale. (which I would split)
But hold on to yours, cause i'm smoking mine :)
- Re: McClintock "SEALED" Virginia Pouch
- Posted by I've got a lot of friends on this list,,,THANK CREATION on Thursday, 01-Mar-2007
Dano...I'll keep it, and if you ever really have a "break glass emergency" I will send it to you for free....
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Wazmo can fend for himself, for god's sake his computers can do the British sterling symbol.....
just another Mike, but thank god the only Mike C so far
- Is It Bullion Or Just Plain Bull?
- Posted by Smokin n Jokin on Tuesday, 27-Feb-2007
These gold and platinum blends of tobacco. Are they really worth twice the price of the regular version or is this just a marketing ploy. I don't see how they can be anything other than just a change of the ratio of tobaccos. Probably just a couple of bucks worth of high quality golden virginia added to the mix. I could add four and a half ounces of Three Castles to a pound of King Mountain for $15.00 and probably end up with a pretty good platinum/gold/silver/palladium/rhodium blend.
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- Re: Is It Bullion Or Just Plain Bull?
- Posted by adam on Wednesday, 28-Feb-2007
im new to this and have tried several platinums from d&r tobacco ive got an order coming in with some regular types from them i`ll report back what i find im curious myself.
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- Re: Is It Bullion Or Just Plain Bull?
- Posted by Kizer Sosa on Wednesday, 28-Feb-2007
In my opinion, it's all about what your personal tastes insist on.
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I can't speak to the D&R brands, but after sampling three Virginias from RYO (Platinum Gold, Natural and Blend), I just bought a pound of the Gold. It was clearly superior.
It was pretty clear to me that the Gold was pure Virginia. Completely uniform in a bright gold color, whereas the other two were an obvious mix of golds and browns.
I also like the extra fine cut and moisture factor that the Gold had, which probably contributes to the cost. The other two were OK, but were dryer and had a much rougher cut. Lots of sticks, stems and birdseyes as well.
At $37/lb (including shipping), it's not cheap, but still 15 bux cheaper than a single carton of premades here in Michigan. Also, the PS brands, which I favor as well, cost me $19 locally for a 300 gram can.. so that works out to around $29.00/lb when you do the math... 8 bux difference isn't a big deal for me, as long as I'm enjoying myself.
I guess it's simply a matter of balancing your taste preferences against your budget. For myself, I prefer "very good" to "pretty good"... and I still save hundreds compared to the cost of premades.
- Deans Lil Cigars
- Posted by Smokin n Jokin on Saturday, 24-Feb-2007
Just for the fun of it I ordered a package of each flavor on my last American Thrust order. I don't smoke cigars but if I couldn't afford to smoke whatever I wanted to and didn't want to mess with stuffing my own I'd be all over those for .95 a package. They are 100's and the filter is about a mile long, well..... 1 3/8 inches actually. I've been into flavored tobaccos lately, maybe it's because if you give some of them to the girls at work they follow you around like little puppy dogs; so I tried a couple of the Canoe flavors also, I like them better than Zen but Top still seems to do flavored tobaccos best.
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- Re: Deans Lil Cigars
- Posted by scott johnson on Saturday, 24-Feb-2007
I picked up a pack of the chocolate flavored one last week. They were OK, I guess. I also decided I could smoke those if I couldn't MYO anymore. I had to remove the filter and smoke them unfiltered as they has almost no flavor thru that massive factory filter.
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- What types of Tobacco (UK)
- Posted by Luke Simmons on Thursday, 22-Feb-2007
I'm considering buying a tubing machine online, mainly due to the rarity of finding them in UK and the esteemed "coolness" I would have in bring out own made, tailor like cigarettes.
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However, I am unsure as to what tobacco I can place into a tubing machine; in the UK the main choices unless I go into a shop for flavored Tobacco is Golden Virgina, Drum, and Amberleaf. I was curious as to if any of these will "work" in a tubing machine, or if I need to buy special Tobacco. Buying Tobacco online, I believe, is not an option due to local laws.
Any help on the matter would be appreciated.
--- Luke
- Re: What types of Tobacco (UK)
- Posted by Wazmo Nariz on Thursday, 22-Feb-2007
You should have no problems stuffing any of those brands, although you might find the Amber Leaf a bit easier due to its rougher cut. The only important thing to remember is the moisture level of the tobacco. The Drum and Golden Virginia may require a couple minutes of air drying outside the pouch before injecting--but don't let it get "crispy" feeling, as the Drum and GV are relatively fine cut.
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I recall seeing in many news agents (and CostCutter stores especially) in the UK the Rizla "Concept" kits. You got a box of tubes, a hand held injector that wasn't too awful and tobacco. You could buy the tobacco and tubes seperately as well; can't remember the price as its been a year or so since I lived there. The tobacco wasn't any great shakes, but it wasn't bad, either, and it was cut perfectly for injecting.
- general
- Posted by Karen on Monday, 19-Feb-2007
Well, its two weeks into my experience...thought I would share a few things and hopefully provoke a chuckle or two. First...things I found out NOT to do...research. Do not ever open a pack of Bali Shag light, throw it into a tube and inhale deeply. A couple of things could happen, your resporatory system will sieze...you can't exhale or inhale, you will find hair on your chest if your a woman. Just because you think you like a "moist" tobacco does not give you enough reason to pack wet tobacco into a tube let dry and light it, same symptoms as above...there are many demi-Gods in the world of tobacco, and some live here on this site...one in perticular (do not know name, post was read to me over the phone) my converts and I call him the "Scientist". He airs his tobacco, hand rolls in 2 different kinds of paper, then puts into 5 different tubes....The whole time I was being read this I was cracking up(while throwing every scrap of tobacco on cookie sheets to air, then preceeded to put into every tube I had). I have named my first blend after him...its the Scientists Nightmare blend...composed of Zig Zag reg., Zig Zag light, Midnight Special, Buglar, Gambler and a Mix which was composed of rolled wet tobacco and other tobaccos, taken out of tubes aired, and put back into mix for economical purposed totaling about 24-26 oz. worth of tobacco which is my current smoke. (gave bali Shag and Sampson away). Its not too bad. The airing does make a huge difference can actually taste the tobacco, most of it does not taste that great...Midnight special has a most funky after taste after airing. (have not been able to put a name with the funk). Bought a Premier Excel today. (Excel for a couple of reasons, one..daughter bought the only Supermatic for 30 miles...) the other reason, I used hers and I found it awkward for me to use, I love the design of the Excel...where the crank is and it has a handle on it to get a better grip. Have banned myself from samples for a while, but couldn't resist one today when I bought the Excel...and, have some coming from American Thrust. (Will add to Nightmare blend when needed). All in all has been a very informative week....(hope the scorched feeling leaves on my tongue soon, maybe won't have to have lung transplant..still pluckin stray hairs occasionally tho..) Thanks to all who post for the newbies, input is read, sometimes needs to be re-read..Wearing the dumb A-- award hopefully will pass along to someone else soon. Thanks ya'll!!
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- Re: general
- Posted by Smokin n Jokin on Monday, 19-Feb-2007
Ahhhh, add a little Norwegian shag to that blend, put it in a charbon tube and you'll think your smoking ambrosia. You should have lived back in the days when we had Prince Albert.
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Signed: the scientist
- Re: general
- Posted by scott johnson on Monday, 19-Feb-2007
umm, they still make Prince Albert. Been tempted to try it.
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- Re: general
- Posted by Matt on Monday, 19-Feb-2007
My grandpa used to roll Prince Albert and smoke it in a pipe. I remember swiping an ungummed, single-wide Prince Albert paper in my adolescence and making my very first unsuccessful attempt at rolling. (The next I tried was Bull Durham, again unsuccessfully.)
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A few years later I bought a can of Prince Albert. Maybe I'm not giving it much of a chance because I really didn't dry it at all. In a nonfiltered cigarette it was much too mild. I imagine in hindsight though, I would've enjoyed it more if I'd have dried it adequately.
- Re: general
- Posted by Turtle on Monday, 19-Feb-2007
They still make Prince Albert, Its pretty cheap too($12 for 14 oz. I think) I keep some on hand to hand roll from time to time. Great stuff.
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- Re: general
- Posted by scott johnson on Saturday, 24-Feb-2007
Well, out of curiosity, I picked up a pouch of Prince Albert today. I know it's been referred to as pipe tobacco before in this forum, but it's a delicious smoke. a lot of cocoa flavor, stuffs easily, and retains it's moisture a long time. Took a long time to dry it. Very mild in throat/lung sensation. I bet my girlfriend would like this in FF tubes also.
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sj
- Bali Shag Light is too harsh?
- Posted by adamatari on Monday, 19-Feb-2007
I'm suprised that you found the Bali Light to be harsh. I thought it was a nice, easy going halfzware... But then I suppose if you aren't in halfzwares you aren't.
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The Bali "Golden Shag" is the American blend by the way, so it might suit your tastes better. Bali always tends to be too moist from the bag in any case.
- Re: Bali Shag Light is too harsh?
- Posted by JerzyJoe on Monday, 19-Feb-2007
I have to agree. Bali shag light is too harsh. The Bali Golden Shag is much better!
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- Re: general
- Posted by Adam on Tuesday, 20-Feb-2007
try the smooth virginia its in a yellow pack thats real good also the rich virginia that comes in a green pack.i do like the light bali shag also and the full flavor. you have to develop a taste for the halfzwares some likem and some dont. also try the export line of tobaccos.
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- Virginia!
- Posted by Kiser Sosa on Thursday, 15-Feb-2007
OK. got my shipment today!
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1 pound of Virginia Blend
6 oz of Virginia "Natural"
and a 50g tin of "Platinum Gold"
I zeroed in on the Gold as the first try-out, and I like it a lot. (no surprise, for what it costs... ;) )
But here's the question:
I need some advice about this "spraying distilled water" on the stuff procedure. The label says "spray and let sit for a few minutes"
Too many variables here... I can see a big time mess and waste of tobacco if done incorrectly.
Any advice on how to approach this? Am I supposed to spray just the amount I'm going to stuff or is it better to treat the whole bag?
How much to spray? Do I give it a proper wetting down or do I just mist it?
How long should it sit?
Should I turn it and respray while it's sitting?
Or would moisturizing and storing the whole shootin' match in an airtight container with a humidifier button solve the prob? What RH do I need?
Sorry, lots of questions, but I got a ton of Virginia, and I'd like to enjoy it and not pitch it out. Any suggestions appreciated. Thanks!
- Re: Virginia!
- Posted by adam on Thursday, 15-Feb-2007
what i do is spread it on a plate in a thin layer but be careful i use a fine mist then i take a card like a liscence or something similar then i gently scoop it on top until its all mixed be careful not to break the strands i store mine in mason jars i then very gently pull the pile apart and try to free the strands and kind of let them drop on the plate i do this until it all feels uniformly moist if its bricked or extremly dry and intertwined i would rehydrate it slowly for that process i use a tuperware container with a divider built into it on one side i put my moistend sponge and on the other my tobacco it usauly takes a day or two the thinner the layer of tobacco the quicker it will be ready for use i hope this helps. happy smokin
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- Re: Virginia!
- Posted by Wazmo Nariz on Thursday, 15-Feb-2007
I'm assuming you ordered from RYOTobacco from your "platinum gold" statement. If not, sorry. If so, they place that label on their bags as a general warning. If the tobacco is already at the proper moisture level (dry to the touch yet springy and dosn't crumble to powder when a pinch is rolled between your fingers), don't worry about the distilled water. If it's exceedingly dry, then rehydrate it slowly.
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The tobacco I've received from them so far has been pretty much at the proper moisture level to stuff straight from the bag, but I usually dump a pound out, loosen it up and let it "air out," or breathe, for 15 or 20 minutes. You may or may not want to do this ... it's just a personal preference I have.
I'll then check it and spritz it if required (depending upon the humidty of the surrounding air), then store it in airtight containers. Don't soak the stuff, and don't get it soggy!!! Happy trails.
- Re: Virginia!
- Posted by Kizer Sosa on Thursday, 15-Feb-2007
Thanks for the info. Yep, from RYOT. Good service and good product, from what I've experienced so far.
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Winter in Michigan here... hasn't been above 20 degrees for a month or so. Humidity has been zero, to say the least.
Let's say I lay the pound out, spritz it, then transfer it to tupperware. Do I need a humidifier button or a sponge in there to keep it moist?
- Re: Virginia!
- Posted by Smokin n Jokin on Thursday, 15-Feb-2007
The more you handle dry tobacco the more shake you're going to end up with. I say forget about the spritzing, spraying and hosing it down. Put a few hydration buttons in it and leave it for a few days.
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- Re: Virginia!
- Posted by Captain U-96 aka Mike on Friday, 16-Feb-2007
I transfer my tobacco to Lock & Lock plastic containers. Then, I'll sample it by making a couple smokes and put in the Caliber 3 to check the RH; before I do anything. I've found that all tobacco isn't the same. For instance, Two Timer is good at about 63%, Ramback at 70%, McClintock Full Flavor at 65%. These % are my preferred levels. For your tobacco I'd start out at 63%, and taste it to see whats up. The more you handle tobacco--the more shake you will end up with. I handle tobacco like it was an expensive, fragile, antique.
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If I had a Mister, I'd lightly mist, then cover and check in a day or so. I use a piece of clean damp sponge in a shot glass, or medicine cup; placed in the middle of the tobacco. If the tobacco is dry, I'll let it set for 2 or 3 days before I handle it. To you, your tobacco might be optimal at 64%! It's a matter of your taste. Generally, the dryer tobacco is the stronger it will be.
I live in Northern Ohio, and the RH in my house is 15%. I only add humidity when the tobacco needs it. To lessen the need, I put tobacco in smaller containers to work out of; only opening the main container to refill my smaller ones. I hope this helps. Mike
- Hydration Re: Virginia!
- Posted by Kerry on Sunday, 18-Feb-2007
Very good advice. I don't use the "buttons", but I do use my own breath to keep my tobacco hydrated during the "arid" months. I can see the possible problems associated with using my own breath to hydrate tobacco, but I also don't trust the stuff used in those "buttons" or other hydration media.
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Also, I blend smaller amounts and store them in smaller containers to stuff out of. Usually only about 3 or 4 ounces at a time. This seems to make a world of difference in keeping down "shake", and I also use my own breath to keep this smaller amount hydrated. Of course, I only stuff for myself.
- Re: Virginia!
- Posted by Dano on Tuesday, 27-Feb-2007
If I understand you correctly you are trying to Rehydrate your tobacco?
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Let me give you a layman's tip.
DON'T spray anything onto the tobacco.
Here's what you do to rehydrate a pouch of tobacco.
You put that pouch into an empty 6 oz can of tobacco. Exact measurement isn't important. You have a pouch and you find any empty can of tobacco, close enough.
When you put it in the can, you gently just pull the tobacco up and apart. Just enough to spread it out, 2 or 3 little pulls. Don't crumple the tobacco. Just stretch it the minimum.
Then you take that can into your bathroom, put the can on the sink, turn the shower on HOT, fog your bathroom for 15 minutes. After 15 minutes come in, turn the shower off, leave, close the door behind you and come back in about another 15 minutes when your bathroom is normal again as in, the heat fog is gone and WhaLAA! your tobacco is perfectly hydrated!
You won't believe it! I've used this method with pouches that were so dry they would crumple if you touched them. Works every time!
If you try this with big batches you probably will get mold, put 1 pouch is 1 days worth of smokes. No mold problem.
- Re: Virginia!
- Posted by mike c on Tuesday, 27-Feb-2007
yes, that does work doesn't it! I have also found that a tiny moistened piece of sponge thrown into a small amout (such as a pouch) quickly restores it.....I did, however, notice that your reply was beneath Kerry's, maybe you were replying to the original questionier, etc,,,,,but Kerry has his own unique system down of using his breath.
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I'll tell you this....ain't nuthin' better for cleaning vinyl records that are not already destroyed....
- newbie...
- Posted by karen on Monday, 12-Feb-2007
First of all, thanks to everyone's opinions on "everything" here. Started SYO only a week ago. Started pretty much like most do I think. Zig-Zag kit. Have already been looking at premier supermatic, and definately looking for a better tobacco. Zig-Zag is way harsh and has a big bite. My daughter found your site and I visited for several hours this morning :-). I live in a small town w/standard tobacco shops. Went in search of better smoke today. Came home with midnight special, not as harsh as zig-zag. A do-able smoke. After reading most of the comments on machines though, I'm not a repairman...will probably end up with premier supermatic, because of the mechanicing that seems to be associated with this machine I am also leaning towards rolling. I also like a tighter smoke than this handheld seems to want togive.. Kit injector works ok, beats $29 for a carton of pre-made. Does the supermatic pack the tobacco for you or do you still have to pack it like you do with handheld injector? What other brands of tobacco's would be a step or two up from midnight special?
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- Re: newbie...
- Posted by adam on Monday, 12-Feb-2007
check out d&r go to the retailers link they have plenty of good brands also check out american thrust tobacco they have 1.00 samples thats great cause you can try a bunch out and not spend alot hope this helps also search through the brands link on this page and read what others have to say ultimately its up to your own taste though thats whats so great about syo you get to decide what goes in your smokes also try different tubes some tobacco tastes totally different in other tubes take care and enjoy the syo ride!
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- Re: newbie...
- Posted by Smokin n Jokin on Monday, 12-Feb-2007
First, $29.00 for a carton of premades??????? Where do you live? A carton of the cheapest generic cigarettes you can buy here costs $46.70 and Marlboros are about $60.00
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Now about the machines. I have just about all of the hand stuffers that are on the market and I know what you mean about the ZigZag. tamp, stuff,tamp,stuff,tamp,stuff,tamp,stuff and you still can't get enough tobacco in the undersized chamber to make a tight stick. I have another one that's just the opposite, if you fill the oversized chamber without even tamping then you can't slide it back and forth. There is only one hand stuffer as far as I'm concerned and thats the Gizeh Silver Tip Boy. It doesn't even come with a tamper. Just fill the tray, close the lid so it cuts the tobacco. slide what has been cut off into the slot, close the top and slide. You get a nice tight stick every time with no hassle.
Any of the Premier crankers will make as tight a stick as you want, and therein lies the problem. Most newbies tend to overfill the chamber, then tamp the tobacco down which jams the machine, causing all sorts of problems. Unless you need to make 100's I would opt for the Supermatic II. There is a learning curve and most likely you will end up destroying the first machine you buy anyway so you might even consider starting out with the Excel. I actually like mine better than the supermatic II. It has a deeper tobacco chamber which makes it harder to overstuff and seems to give me more consistent sticks.
Now about tobacco. Midnight Special is a Lanes Limited product, one of the better companies, they also make Bugler, the preferred tobacco in 97.6% of all U.S. prisons, along with Jester Holland Premium and Samson shag, all good products. There are standards brands that almost all of the smoke shops here carry, they are American Spirit, Bali, Gambler, Stokers #2, Golden Harvest and Mclintock. They stock those because that's what sells. As you get further into this stuff you own odyssey you will find that you have a preference for certain tobaccos, whether it be flu cured golden virginias, turkish, oriental virginias, air cured burley or fire cured dark Kentucky and will find yourself seeking those out. For the price D&R blends are good quality and hard to beat. On the higher end there is Peter Stokkebye, with a number of smooth, mellow European blends. As someone mentioned American Thrust has 1oz samples of most brands for $1.00 each and is an excellent way to try some of what is available. Hope this helps.
- Re: newbie...
- Posted by Jersey_Joe on Monday, 12-Feb-2007
That's right. When I have to buy premaid cigs I usually buy Gold Coast Lights. They are $4.90 a pack and they are the cheapest brand...
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- Re: newbie...
- Posted by lipps1948 on Tuesday, 13-Feb-2007
Hey Smokin n Jokin,
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26 bucks a carton down here in Tennessee, cheaper in Virginia, 12 miles away, at least southern Virginia. And thats premium Camels etc. But I still smoke SYO.
Regards, Pete
- Re: newbie...
- Posted by Keith on Monday, 12-Feb-2007
I'm still a newbie at SYO too, and like you I started with the Zig-Zag handheld. The first tobacco I bought was Stokers #2 full flavor and I thought it was light years ahead of the pre-mades I had been smoking. Do yourself a big favor and go to [link] and at the bottom of the page, buy the Super Premium Starter Kit. It comes with the Blue Supermatic (Top of the line machine) and enough tobacco and tubes for 2 cartons of smokes. The Vengeur or Two Timer is pretty mild and sweet and is just excellent for someone just switching over from pre-made cigarettes, IMO.
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- Re: newbie...
- Posted by Captain U-96 aka Mike on Monday, 12-Feb-2007
Welcome to the forum! Since you say you aren't into mechanicing, let me suggest the Topomatic. I have been making my own smokes since the early 90's, and have had several Supermatics. The first one got trashed, because I didn't have the patience for the directions. Those that followed were better, but needed cleaning and very light household oil to work smooth. I now have a Topomatic, and I read and followed the instructions. So far, all I've had to do is clean it with a little alcohol on the cutter/compressor, spoon, and inside the nipple. A much easier machine to work with in my opinion. So, I'd suggest you try the Topomatic. You can make smokes as tight as you like with practice, with less of a chance for a jam. Mike
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- Re: newbie...
- Posted by Matt on Monday, 12-Feb-2007
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...and the one thing every newcomer needs is dedication. If you go into it knowing the fact you're going to mess up a few sticks to find the way, that's a big step. Then you arrive and it becomes second nature once you finallly do learn to make them right. I rolled my own a few years before coming to SYO and I must say that SYO with a Premier Supermatic should really break in a beginner well. (That is, if they have the right tools.)
- Re: newbie...
- Posted by Dave Grant on Wednesday, 14-Feb-2007
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"...and the one thing every newcomer needs is dedication."
Amen to that. Too many get frustrated and give up too soon.
- Re: newbie...
- Posted by scott johnson on Tuesday, 13-Feb-2007
Welcome to the forum!
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As far as economy brands, I like golden harvest and Rave tobaccos. I've found both for about $12/pound
sj
- Re: newbie...
- Posted by karen on Tuesday, 13-Feb-2007
Wow!! Thanks to everyone! This newbie listens. I live in South East Tennessee. Have been looking at D&R, American Thrust and several of the suggested companies, already have sample list prepared. I have looked at the Excel and the Top. The "overfilling" is what had me concerned with higher priced machines. I have much dedication when you stack up $120 a month habbit to rough estimations of $35 a month...and a heck of a lot better smoke (once I got past the teeth and claws of zig zag). One thing I did notice in my "baccer" walk about was this...even though there are only three shops here, there was something different in all of them. Thanks to all for the input, links and for making me feel welcome!
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