Old Forum

Posted by mike c on Friday, 23-Feb-2007

this answer is nice and loving despite it's appearance...Take the Handheld and throw it 20 feet in the neighbors yard....if you'll settle for king size, we can talk...but it's still more complicated than you'd probably bargained for and the great message unfortunately is this truth: TO MAKE A DECENT CIGARETTE YOU HAVE TO INVEST IN A CRANK-STYLE MACHINE...you have to....but I may be the one you're looking for if you like those handhelds...I held off for years due to non-exposure
I'll be here

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Posted by Matt on Friday, 23-Feb-2007

"...I held off for years due to non-exposure"

I rolled for a few years with the complimentary papers after trying a hand held injector with similar results. A crank style machine will really put you in a different mindset after you try one. It's what it took for me to switch from my old hand rolled nonfilters to smoking filter cigarettes again.

You're gonna need to bring some gumption to the table, though. You'll need the tools to break down a crank style injector. (It's not hard, you just need your basic wrenches & a flathead screwdriver) You need to know there is a learning curve & you might get frustrated from time to time. You also need to know that it's fun and worth your while.

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Posted by mike c on Friday, 23-Feb-2007

Matt, funny I thought of you and the handrollers after I posted....my comments were aimed at filtered smokes.
my handrolled's were nothing to brag about, and turned fingers yellow......I later got good at handrolling Mishma......apologies I left that catagory out (the handrolling, not Mary Jane)
If only I'd been old enough for the Laredo.....

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Posted by Matt on Friday, 23-Feb-2007

I betcha tobacco wasn't the first thing lots of RYO enthusiasts learned with.

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Re: Need some help (slightly off): Posted by Dave Grant on Saturday, 24-Feb-2007
Dave? Dave's not here, man.....
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Posted by scott johnson on Saturday, 24-Feb-2007

Um, I never could roll that "stuff". Besides, it wasn't worth it to me, just put me to sleep. I can do that on my own, hehehe.

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Posted by mike c on Saturday, 24-Feb-2007

Sleep
now there was a cool band if you like Orange amps and earplugs....
anyway, the mishma in tinsie administered doses does wonders for 42 yr old bachelor losers who've no maiden
and no, I never Supermaticked a joint....not a bad idea if you're not stingy

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Re: Need some help (slightly off): Posted by Matt on Saturday, 24-Feb-2007

"...I never Supermaticked a joint....not a bad idea if you're not stingy"

I can't imagine the cutter build up after a few.
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Posted by Shade on Friday, 23-Feb-2007

Well, i apprecate the advice, i dont have the cash to buy a crank style. I have what i have for right now, and plan on making it work. I'm more interested in figuring out how to make the HH work that i have. I don't mind switching to kings either. I would like to get to a point where i throw in the tobacco, put in the filter, close it, and pull/push and i have a stick thats filled all the way. If i can accomplish that once or twice i can find a method to do it constantly. If it does work out, and in a few months i will buy a crank machine. But right now i'm not ready to invest in it. First i want to see what a finished cigarette SYO look, feels and taste's like. So far i can make smokable sticks, and if i pack and spend 2-3 minutes can make 1 factory worthy smoke.

So, the quesions where, what am i doing wrong, and could someone give me a detailed step by step on how to make it, like how to figure how much to put in, common mistakes, and the whole step 1 put in the tobacco? I would appreciate it.

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Re: Need some help: Posted by Mike c on Friday, 23-Feb-2007
easiest soluton
ditch the 100mm tubes and use Kings on that setting
VOILA!!! You may have to either tap some overhang down into the tube, or worse, add some manually (I use a ballpoint pen)
with this alone you should sleep better at least tonight
we can talk Maiker HH 100mm injectors later if you think it of value
mike
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HH look so cool if you've got my Rizla FF De Luxe

Posted by Smokin n Jokin on Friday, 23-Feb-2007

Hello shade, Don't despair and most importantly hang in there and don't give up.
First a few questions. What kind of tobacco are you trying to stuff, how familiar are you with the different cuts and moisture levels?

Let me tell you a little about the ZigZag pro injector. It's the worst one on the market. It's a classic example of what's wrong with this industry and that is that the people that design and make this stuff never use it. I just bought some Zen flip top cases and if you fill them with king size sticks you can't close the lid. There is room for three rows of sticks but if you put more than two in it smashes them when you try and close the lid.

The problem with the ZigZag pro is the the chamber is too small. If you are using anything but fine cut shag you have to fill the chamber, tamp it down, compress it as much as you can, then keep repeating this until the tobacco is even with the top of the chamber, repeat this until your fingers get cramps in them from trying to compress the tobacco, then spread a little tobacco on top of that, put the tube on and close the lid and slide. If you aren't ready to move up to a cranker save yourself a lot of time and frustration and chuck the ZigZag and get yourself a Gizeh silver top boy injector. It cuts the tobacco, doesn't even come with a tamper and is the only one worth having.

If you a getting filter voids there is pretty much only one thing that can cause that on a HH injector other than not using enough tobacco and that is the tobacco being too moist. It hangs up in the chamber instead of sliding out through the nozzle which compacts it from end to end, thererfore leaving a filter void. you might try putting your finger over the end of the nozzle, putting a pinch or two of tobacco in front of it and stuffing it into the nozzle before you fill the chamber.

The cherry falling off is a result of the stick being stuffed too loose. Remember, fill, tamp, fill, tamp, fill, tamp, fill, tamp, fill, tamp, fill, tamp.

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Posted by Mike C on Saturday, 24-Feb-2007

Dear Smokin n Jokin
did I ever formerly welcome you?
sorry if I didn't...we get alot of people who aren't made of muscle like us and go away..
regards the Zig Zag...piece of shite....in my day, better HH's were locally available
thanks for explaining what I was too distracted to do last night....biggest problem....the piece of shite equipment he's on........and BTW, Randy (right?, thats's your name?)
probabaly no-one has used/spent/fooled with/figured out the HH's to any higher degree than me.....I have some other secrets/techniques I can share if you haven't got it right from Smokin n Jokin...when I came here I annoyed THE SHIT out of the list because they knew better than me, but boy I know they give me some credit for the fight for HH's I put up....do not be sad...we'll make it right, but if you go back to pre-mades you'll fade to black, no seeing stars for you......and meanwhile...hear THE TRUTH...save for a Cranker (eBay is a way to get one cheaper)...we are not bullshitting you at all....also, if you want to get REALLY classy, there is an electric machine which has passed our list tech's scrutiny (not the owner, he's too busy)...and for a few hundred more, you can be going AC/DC through the wall...can't help you in a power failure though...
give me a shout if you want a page or more all about HH's, and get the others to agree that they won't have Dave block my access!!!

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Re: HH look so cool if you've got my Rizla FF

Posted by Michelle on Saturday, 21-Apr-2007

Hi, I'm new to MYO. Just bought a Maiker 100 and for the life of me can't figure it out! Have been using Premier Supermatic II and it works, but am more interested in your comment about the electric machine. Can you tell me which one it is? Doesn't seem to be more than a couple selling in the US, and I don't want to waste money on a unit that won't work. Thanks for any help.

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Re: HH look so cool if you've got my Rizla FF

Posted by Mike C on Saturday, 21-Apr-2007

Hello to you too!!!
I have some good news for you! unless you have reason you want to steer away from the Supermatic 2, that machine should "destroy" any of the hand-held models there are.
While I have never used one, (mine is a regular Supermatic), I have been on the list here long enough to learn that the "2" is just fine and in fact in some ways even better as long as you just want king-size smokes!!! I never was refering to any electric machine, and when I look back at some of my posts I am pretty horrified....as for the Maiker HH, did you get the 100mm model or a regular model?? (it will state 1oomm on the top of the device, or on the box, and if not, yours is regular).. the reason I ask is my answer on how to use will differ!!!

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Re: HH look so cool if you've got my Rizla FF

Posted by Mike C on Saturday, 21-Apr-2007

Whoops duh, uh, duhh
I see you clearly stated you got a Maiker 100.
If you are making king-size, you just have to practice loading the tobacco and pushing it down evenly with your fingers....when you have that art correct, then you will need to know that you are always going to have to tap the finished smoke several to many times to "seat" the tobacco nicely down to the filter (the hand-helds just don't do this like the table-top machines do). With the Maiker 100, you will get 2 results....sometimes the finished stick will pop off slightly under-filled (after the tapping), and you have to manually add a pinch of tobacco,,,which can be pushed in tight using a ball-point pen, or if you are more creative than me, something else......other times, and when it is done best, the stick will come off with excess tobacco "overhang". You then do lots of tapping, and after the tobacco is seated down to the filter, if there is still some overhang, trim with scissors to make it flush with the opening of the tube...also you will probably have a little tiny bit of paper torn off the tube end, which is annoying, but not unlivable...you can clear the piece of paper out of the rubber gripper by simply blowing into it briskly...if that fails you can lift it up slightly with your fingers, and "fish it out" with a probe, OR at worst, remove the gripper altogether, and then reinsert it...this should only be required occasionally as it can usually just be blown out....I recommend that you use the Supermatic 2, except if you are travelling, etc (I have a special bag and carry my table-tops with me...just did last night). I believe I recall "Smokin n' Jokin" has a Supermatic 2, and he seems to be very willing to help, maybe he can tell you his methods on this machine?? I pray I haven't confused you, I have tried the best I could!!!!!
cheers!!
ps-also, with the HH models, I recommend twisting the ends to hold the tobacco in place. I have never been able to make cigarettes that stayed together well on a HH

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Re: HH look so cool if you've got my Rizla FF: Posted by Mike C on Saturday, 21-Apr-2007
they say 3 is the charmer, or something.
The electric machine is called the Quick-Roller, and it looks like we have temporarily lost our experts on this machine....I don't recommend it unless you are mechanically inclined!!! I saw posts recently where a couple people were giving up on them due to "firefall", which I think refers to "cherry" or "embers" falling off...burned carpet sucks!!! There are, however, 2 success stories, one of whom is a friend and I have his email, so if you need more, let me know and I will contact him.
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Re: Need some help-(to Smokin '+ Jokin): Posted by Miguel C (non-important ) on Saturday, 21-Apr-2007
Dear Smokin"
I can't help but congratulate you on something
for all of my use of many HH injectors, it NEVER occurred to me to DRY the friggin tobacco!!!
and this stubborn "oversight" of mine continued on with the cranksters, until JUST RECENTLY, when I was having a BONA-FIDE, absolutely true, nervous breakdown, and the weather changed, and all of a sudden I kept having screw-ups, I now have a pile of failed tubes.....
so this changes things regarding my hand-helds
also, I feel TOTALLY embarrassed that "Shade" (I think that was his handle) was asking for help with a handheld and I see I must have been pharmaceutical-ed out once again, as I tried to help him with crank-machine advice
I am almost frightened to look at any post I ever did
shite!
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something to think about

Posted by Hooyah on Saturday, 24-Feb-2007

Shade,
I know exactly what you mean! I just started SYO/MYO about 2 weeks (loving it!). I too first purchased the Zig Zag "Precision Pro" (actually, I had to purchase another one three days ago - after I "overstuffed" the first one...twice I. e. ruining the second nozzle (underneath).

BTW, after asking for funding from the "financial sub-committee" (last week) I received my Supermatic today AND...JESUS!

Anyway (back to the Ziggy). Though the instructions say that "Precision Pro" comes "factory set to king size", I think they miss-printed the instructions AND the indicator stamping on the unit. I believe that it is factory set to 100s (not kings). Isn't a 100 LONGER than a king? If you are stuffing 100s the whole fill-tray should be usable (no red injector/plunger interfering with the fill-tray). They say, "To make 100's, press and push away from tobacco chamber until red switch locks in place". Well, (both of my units) revealed the red injector/plunger which extends into the fill-tray about 1/4 inch (REDUCING the space for 'bacco!).

So, if you are stuffing 100's simply leave the setting on kings (entire slider all the way to the forward end). This allows the entire fill-tray to be utilized; allowing you to make up that missing last 1/4 inch (thanks to Zig Zag engineers).

Also, notice the "nozzle/flute" on the ZZ. it is more pronounced than any other one I've seen; meaning it is more pointed, which WILL hold on to the tobacco while the stick is removed (explained at the end).

As you may know already, the helpful trick to injecting is to stuff each end first and then stuff the center. DON'T over-stuff or you'll be buying another one...or two or three. Also, remove excess tobacco from the shoulders of the unit before you close the lid. Slide it back all the way to it's stop, then forward. (If it doesn't slide easily, you've stuffed the poop out of it - stop and try again)

Open the lid. Depending on whether you are left or right handed you'll want to ROTATE the stick away or toward you while removing it. Because, I've found out that if I simply pull it off, I end up leaving tobacco in the flute which leaves the stick with a 1/4 LESS of tobacco at its tip. You'll want to rotate the stick in the direction that is away from the longer part of the "nozzle/flute".

A LOT of information for only a $7 dollar item but I hope it will help you and others in the future.

Hooyah

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Re: Need some help: Posted by Zero The Hero and the PHP's on Saturday, 24-Feb-2007
one more for simplicity
The Zig-Zag injector is being heavily marketed and getting wide ditribution...now if it were me, I will drive the shop owners INSANE just for having it on the shelf....but that's a story, not a help......they told you, you have a lemon...IT's TRUE.......get a Silver Tip Boy (as I know it is identical to one of my 1000000000000, OOOOOOOOOOO HH's in storage
there will still be some learning lessons needed, but man will you be happier...phone the shop you bought the Ziggy at and threaten them if they resist a fefund.......it has NEVER failed for me, but then I'm a bit scary.......(also more full of love than, say, ahh, nevermind.....do it and then lets talk??? Smokin n Jokin told you the most important thing....it's refuse, the body shape is all wrong, tamping isn't even needed on a better tool, dual machines (Ioo's and Kings) are not made right yet (probably never will be), and BTW... I was telling you to make kings on the 100 setting....someone knows better than me?? REALLY? well fair enough, 2 quick exams of the Zig-Zag design sent me RUNNING out of the store.....the machines are not supposed to have curves on them, they just want to play futuristic, and I will destroy them for the good of this list....so there!!!! can you please get Dave to answer the door? I'm really paranoid holding all this stuff outside......mc
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Re: Need some help: Posted by Creeping Creature (NOT HUMAN, or PEOPLE) on Saturday, 24-Feb-2007
Ok here's the deal
no King-size injector works right unless you love tamping sticks.
The Silver Tip Boy is made right (I'm psychic), and will match mine which are made with some degree of common sense.
I invite you to go get your Zig-Zag now (pausing while this takes place),,,,,OK, now look at the plastic tube gripper which is attached to the top "half, part, whatever"...see how it's made of whitish hardish plastic??? this is why you need to forget 7 dollars and melt it into liquid plastic
(the spoon will still have recognizable qualities)...take it to the shop, and kindly explain with a wink that next time it's their face if they don't get a proper distibutor.
whew, OK, now, what I forgot is a list member (ROSS) came along and suggested the "El Rey" injector was the best of the king-sizers...he's probabaly right...however I want to tell you the other possibilities probabaly even better (look away Ross friend).....Veterans on this list revealed they could do King-size with your embarrasingly inexcusable "thing"...(not your fault)....so try this and you should either end up clipping or tapping down all the way the excess tobacco (we cranksters have to do this too sometimes, but the experience equates success, and equals no frustration)...OR, you may have to tap down to filter and then add tobacco to the gap at the tip end.....if this fails, get a MAIKER 100mm, and do this same thing, it's built right like the "Silver Tip Boyee", except it has longer spoon, whatever....you will get little tiny tiny tiny tears at the cig tip, but I am not of the asthetics school of tubes, have no attraction to brown tubes (Vera Cruz) or anything else too fancy for my burn-holed jeans.
I meant well, despite my disgust at the Zig-ZAG
Michael Coleman
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Posted by Ross Green on Monday, 12-Feb-2007

Heres one for all the people that hate hand-held injectors and think they're all junk. I usually use an el-rey injector and after a little practice can make a really good cigarette with it. Well figured I'd mix up what I usually smoke and bought a 6oz bag of Gambler FF and a carton of tubes ( I usually smoke the likes of Bugler, McClintock, and more recently to my dismay TOP ). But upon going home I couldn't get my beloved little money-saver to work. I tried for almost an hour and it jammed every time. So I got to thinking, maybe something different might work. Went back to the smoke shop and found the cheapest injector they had besides the el-rey I already had. It was a top, or gambler if you like ( the same thing, just different colors ). Paid like six bucks for it and tried it out. It stuffs Gambler tobacco beautifully. It even made great cigarettes with McClintock. Never had a jam, or a tube slip off, nothing. Perfectly filled every time. It completely baffles me to be perfectly honest.

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Re: something to think about: Posted by The Fall of Earth City on Tuesday, 13-Feb-2007
I saw a Gambler machine on eBay, and athough it appeared to be TOP hh duplicate, I like the black paint job much better.
All these machines can work, it's just a deterrent for many because you have to work at it which many don't realize
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Re: something to think about: Posted by Keith on Wednesday, 14-Feb-2007
My first machine was a hand held Zig Zag Precision Pro. It makes decent smokes using just about any tobacco. I bought a Supermatic for speed and convenience. I have nothing against the hand held and I still use the Zig Zag on occasion and like it, but for making up a pack of smokes, I prefer the crank machine.
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Rizla cig size

Posted by Ross on Tuesday, 23-Jan-2007

has anybody used the Rizla cig size, and if so what kind of impact the smaller tubes had on taste/ feel of the tobacco. This has been bugging me. It seems like a really good idea to get people introduced into RYO.

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Posted by mike c on Wednesday, 24-Jan-2007

very smooth....best way I can describe,,,,IMHO, however, only the people that have smoked one made on a mod machine will know their true potential.....
they are a little too smooth to be my all-the-time shell, they burn fast probably due to handheld production, and I find the paper cuff used to apparently make sure the Rizla logo shows up boldly to be to my distaste
I think most HH injectors will allow it to fit, so you might take a chance...

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Posted by Matt on Thursday, 25-Jan-2007

"I find the paper cuff used to apparently make sure the Rizla logo shows up boldly to be to my distaste."

I've always hated those paper cuffs. When I first saw them in my early teens I hated them. (Mainly because back then I'd smoke a cigarette all the way down to the tipping paper and that extra bit of overlap seemed wasteful.) Plus, aesthetically it's just plain ugly.

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Posted by Dave L on Thursday, 25-Jan-2007

FWIW The distance that the tipping paper extends past the filter (cuff doesn't seem like the appropriate word) is basically the same for the cig size tubes as it is for tubes with 15mm filters (e.g. Gambler and Silver Tip).

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